You are here:
Home Jack Sarfatti's Blog Discussion with Woodward 8-3-11 Star Ship Propulsion

---------- Original Message ----------

Folks,

There's been a lot of talk about the "problems" of current physics: the lack of a quantum theory of gravity, instantaneous propagation of effects, for example, entanglement and so on, what is the correct theory of cosmology, and on and on. It has also been suggested that all of these problems need to be fixed before we can have any real hope of making progress on the starship/stargates (S/S) problem. I disagree.

So far I agree with your disagreement on the above. Remember I will be on a multi-day DARPA/NASA panel on precisely this topic early October, so I would like to have at least a qualitative understanding of your conceptual narrative, premises and how your particular approach connects with orthodox General Relativity.

Indeed, I am sure that if we wait around for all of the "problems of physics" to be solved before we get serious about the S/S problem, hell will have long since frozen over. What we need to do is identify those physical principles that must be correct if the S/S problem is to be solved, and then go do experiments to see if the requisite principles actually work as needed.

OK

Right

OK you just lost me. First of all I don't know what you mean by "inertia." Let me tell you first what I mean by that term.

1) Given a massive test particle on a timelike geodesic in orthodox Einstein General Relativity (GR) a non-gravity force must be applied to push it off the time like geodesic. This is given by Newton's covariant second law of motion in curved spacetime

D^2x^u/ds^2 = F^u/m

where

m = invariant rest mass of the test particle

ds = invariant proper time differential (c = 1) along the test particle's (center of mass if extended) world line.

D/ds is the covariant derivative with respect to the Levi-Civita-Christoffel connection field for parallel transport of tensors relative to the invariant proper time differential along the world line.

F^u is the 4-vector non-gravity force

e.g. the electromagnetic force on the charged test particle is the covariant

F^u(EM) = qF^uvdx^v/ds

where F^uv = g^u^wFwv

Fwv is the EM field tensor

g^u^v is the metric tensor (that reduces to the Minkowski metric in a small region around a small geodesic detector in free float).

m = rest mass of test particle = inertia

you agree or disagree?

2) The origin of inertia is given by the Yukawa couplings in the standard particle quantum field theory model using the Higgs vacuum "superconductor" fields plus Frank Wilzcek's quantum chromodynamic super-computer computations of the hadronic rest masses of the confined quarks and their cloud of virtual off-mass-shell gluons and virtual quark-antiquark pairs to dominant approximation.

Therefore, I say there is no mystery at all about the origin of inertial. It is a pseudo-problem based on Mach's obsolete 19th century ideas of "matter" prior to quantum theory and prior to General Relativity.

Agreed, but please comment where we disagree on the meaning of "inertia."

What is meant by "material sources" has dramatically changed since Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and quantum field theory giving us virtual particles inside the vacuum as well as real particle elementary excitations of the vacuum, i.e. the "mass shell" idea based on poles of the Feynman propagators in the complex energy plane. Real particles are the poles and virtual particles are everything else in the complex energy plane that contributes to the propagator vacuum correlation functions.

Furthermore, ordinary near EM fields of power lines, electric motors, transformers et-al are macro-quantum coherent Glauber states of off-mass-shell virtual photons off the classical light cone as is seen by a Fourier transform of the electrostatic Coulomb field of a point charge in its rest frame as the most elementary example. This is distinct from the random zero point virtual photons of hf/2 per mode in the Casimir force effect, for example.

Every time one has a response susceptibility in soft condensed matter many-body problem the wave vector k-frequency f plane domain of support of the response functions are from virtual quasi particles and virtual collective modes that are real only on the "mass shell" e.g.

f = csk

cs = speed of sound in a crystal lattice

etc.

similarly for the vacuum response functions!

The important point here is that Einstein's strong equivalence principle (SEP) demands that virtual particles directly bend space time as well as real particles. This is proved by the dark energy acceleration of the expansion rate of our observable universe. Most physicists have failed to fully understand this since the discovery of the anomalous z redshifts in Type 1a supernovae are only about 12 years old. The diffusion time of new physics is obviously too long here.

The problem with this is that the field equations of GRT are really those of a local field theory (that can be applied to cosmological situations), so it really shouldn't be surprising that they have "non-Machian" solutions. The historical record then follows. . . .

OK, In fact, orthodox GR of 1916 is simply the local gauge theory of the Abelian 4-parameter globally rigid translation group T4 whose infinitesimal generators are the global total energy and linear momentum operators of the non-gravity matter fields in globally flat Minkowski spacetime where they are well defined.

The four Cartan 1-form tetrad fields e^I describe the motion of local inertial frames not rotating along the geodesics of the curved spacetime. There are even Penrose-Newman complex null tetrads for the null geodesic light cones as well as the more familiar ones for timelike geodesics corresponding to massive detectors with "inertia."

The non-Minkowski part of the tetrad fields in 1916 GR are the compensating gauge potentials that keep the total global dynamical actions of the non-gravity matter fields (leptons, quarks, gauge bosons of EM-weak-strong interactions) invariant under the local T4(x) that contains T4 as a subgroup.

The spin-connection for lepton and quark spinors (Weyl, Dirac, Majorana) comes from the tetrads as shown in detail by Rovelli in Ch 2 of his online lectures "Quantum Gravity," All of this is for the plain vanilla minimal curvature only 1916 GR.

To include a torsion field, one must locally gauge the 10-parameter Poincare group including the six space-time rotations in addition to the above four translations.

To go even further include the even larger conformal de Sitter group and spontaneously break it down to the de Sitter group with the cosmological constant /\ that connects us to the 't Hooft-Susskind world hologram picture via Tamara Davis's 2003 Ph.D (online).

The vacuum superconductor Glauber coherent states (order parameters) of course have physics in them that is yet to be properly explored. There are some papers on this in the literature.

Exactly my question.

I hope so. The scales are so different that it's plausible they are decoupled sufficiently for practical applications.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

You have lost me completely with this remark. It has no meaning for me. How do you falsify it? Also what do you even mean by "distant matter"? This premise is too vague for my mind and that's why my instinct is that your approach rests on shaky ground at least 9.0 on the Richter scale! ;-)

Look at Tamara Davis's conformal time diagram of the entire history of our universe.

Where and when is the "distant matter" on this diagram? Do you mean the entire space-time bounded by our past light cone and our past particle horizon? If so, you do not allow Wheeler-Feynman (Hoyle-Narlikar-Cramer) advanced signal "transactions."

Again these English words are too vague for me. I don't understand how you can relate that to propulsion.

Sure, in the simplest metric field Newton's gravity force is actually the non-gravity reaction force needed to keep the static LNIF detector still in curved spacetime, that's the meaning of the metric component

g00 = 1 + 2Newton's potential per unit test mass/c^2

where

Newton's potential = -GM/r

r > 2GM/c^2

You lost me completely in the above paragraph. I need to see equations/diagrams etc. I think all you are saying is what I just said above? In any case I can't connect your dots to propellantless propulsion for the Star Ship Study Panel. Not yet. You need to show more.

I don't understand "transient effects". I don't see how that connects to warp drive in the sense of Einstein's GR where to use Puthoff's "metric engineering" we need to manipulate the ship's timelike geodesic from the ship itself with small amounts of power many powers of ten smaller than Jupiter's mass-energy. In short, we need to reverse engineer what we see flying saucers actually do above our nuclear weapons bases etc with impunity. We don't want to screw around with the mass of the ship because of the Anthropic Principle's "Just Six Numbers" (Martin Rees). Of course if we can make negative mass in a small sub-mass of the ship without blowing apart the universe in an Ice 9 vacuum "strangelet" (Martin Rees "Our Final Hour") good.

On Aug 1, 2011, at 9:40 PM, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Maybe I missed it. Please resend it.

I guess what I am asking is for you to give here a synopsis of

1) what precisely you mean by Mach's principle?

I don't understand your last sentence here.

1a) do you have a mathematical formulation consistent with Einstein's mainstream equations of gravity?

2) what are the equations for propulsion?

No, not good enough. I need to see YOUR equations and understand their premises before I can endorse your approach to DARPA/NASA and several billionaires keen on interstellar space-travel. Please resend professional details ASAP as I seem to have lost them in the noise of email traffic.

Again, show me. OK so you claim to be able to rectify. But what mass is actually fluctuating? How much is it? I gather you are not changing the rest masses of real electrons and real atomic nuclei? (Just Six Numbers) You are messing with their chemical binding energies? What about making an explosion with that Sorceror's Apprentice approach?

Show me. Again, what is this mass-energy you are making negative with w > -1 so that you get anti-gravity?

I can't understand your last paragraph here. I need to see the nitty-gritty ASAP.

3) is your drive a true warp drive?

You are claiming to make a Jupiter mass of exotic matter in your laboratory with microwaves? With ELF? .... Without destroying the Earth? Pardon my skepticism - extraordinary claims ...

3a) are the objects inside the ship weightless?

OK, but again these are merely empty claims without any evidence I have seen.

3b) are you controlling the shape of the timelike geodesic of the center of mass of the ship?

I fully agree a good trick if you can do it. How do you fix the distant mouth and cosmic global time of the other end of the wormhole?

In real warp drive the inertial mass of the ship over-all is irrelevant - it drops out of the geodesic equation for the center of mass of the ship. It is the intrinsic geometry at the ship that is being manipulated from the ship - that's what "metric engineering means".

4) How do you compute the energy needed for a real large star ship as big as a modern day super-carrier?

Again I need to see details for DARPA/NASA panel. More unsubstantiated extraordinary claims.

Note - in the retrocausal world hologram theory with our future event horizon as the hologram screen - that is arguably a Wheeler-Feynman version of historically vague Mach's Principle.

OK, so again this brings us back to the Tamara Davis's picture above. Where and when is your distant matter?

Also how does the distant matter connect with your local transient effect - is it the Dirac radiative reaction that Wheeler-Feynman started with. So you need the future light cone intersection with our future horizon or not?

I don't have access to that published stuff please send it. Also you can screen capture the equations as I have been doing if you have digital copies.

Best,

Jim

Perhaps the most fundamental is the issue of mass and the Higgs process. The Higgs process confers rest mass on rest massless particles in the standard model. It is NOT an explanation of the origin of mass.

Sure it is. The rest mass of the leptons and quarks comes from the coupling to the macro-quantum coherent c-number QUANTUM VACUUM Higgs field. That c-number field is a Glauber coherent state of VIRTUAL Higgs-Goldstone bosons from a spontaneous broken continuous symmetry (SU2weak) at the moment of inflation.

Whether or not we can excite REAL Higgs bosons is not relevant to the origin of the quark and lepton rest masses.

I think you have this confused Jim. Where do you get real gluons binding the quarks? That is wrong. The gluons are all virtual just like the virtual photons that bind the electron and the proton in the hydrogen atom.

In fact it's the zero point vacuum plasma fluctuation energy of virtual gluons and also virtual quark-antiquark pairs that gives the hadron rest masses. If you look at the quantum numbers you cannot use real gluons. It's like saying there is a real antineutrino and a real electron inside a neutron BEFORE it decays into a proton and an electron and an anti-neutrino.

There is a tricky point here. When you try and fail to separate say a real quark - antiquark pair in a meson you have a kind of vortex string of chromodynamic fields. Just like the electromagnetic near field the vortex string is made out of coherent states of virtual gluons. The effective string potential ~ (separation of the real quark from the real antiquark).

So you have both random zero point vacuum fluctuations and coherent virtual gluon Glauber states "inside" the hadron. But I am pretty sure that thinking of real on-mass-shell gluons inside the hadron is not correct. Of course the gluons have zero rest mass.

The point is that real gluons are like real photons - they are far field radiating energy to infinity. The hadron needs NON-RADIATING spatially confined near fields of gluons (i.e. Glauber states of virtual gluons).

So what? How does that give propellantless propulsion?

There are two kinds of propellantless propulsion:

one with g-force (not warp drive) i.e. still impulse drive like a rocket even though no real particles are ejected

the other is the true zero g-force warp drive I am interested

Category: MyBlog

Written by Jack Sarfatti

Published on Wednesday, 03 August 2011 15:07

't Hooft 100 Year Star Ship Abner Shimony accelerometers action-reaction principle Aephraim Sternberg Alan Turing Albert Einstein Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer American Institute of Physics Andrija Puharich Anthony Valentin Anton Zeilinger Antony Valentini anyon Apple Computer Artificial Intelligence Asher Peres Back From The Future Basil Hiley Bell's theorem Ben Affleck Ben Libet Bernard Carr Bill Clinton black body radiation Black Hole black hole firewall black hole information paradox black holes Bohm brain waves Brian Josephson Broadwell Cambridge University Carnot Heat Engine Central Intelligence Agency CIA Clive Prince closed time like curves coherent quantum state Consciousness conservation laws Cosmic Landscape Cosmological Constant cosmology CTC cyber-bullying Dancing Wu Li Masters Dark Energy Dark Matter DARPA Daryl Bem David Bohm David Deutsch David Gross David Kaiser David Neyland David Tong de Sitter horizon Dean Radin Deepak Chopra delayed choice Demetrios A. Kalamidas Demetrios Kalamidas Dennis Sciama Destiny Matrix Dick Bierman Doppler radars E8 group Einstein's curved spacetime gravity Einstein's happiest thought electromagnetism Eli Cartan EMP Nuclear Attack entanglement signals ER=EPR Eric Davis Ernst Mach ET Eternal Chaotic Inflation evaporating black holes Facebook Faster-Than-Light Signals? fictitious force firewall paradox flying saucers FQXi Frank Tipler Frank Wilczek Fred Alan Wolf Free Will G.'t Hooft Garrett Moddel Gary Zukav gauge theory general relativity Geometrodynamics Gerard 't Hooft Giancarlo Ghirardi God Goldstone theorem gravimagnetism gravity Gravity - the movie gravity gradiometers gravity tetrads Gravity Waves Gregory Corso gyroscopes hacking quantum cryptographs Hagen Kleinert Hal Puthoff Hawking radiation Heisenberg Henry Stapp Herbert Gold Higgs boson Higgs field hologram universe Horizon How the Hippies Saved Physics I.J. Good ICBMs Igor Novikov inertial forces inertial navigation Inquisition Internet Iphone Iran Isaac Newton Israel Jack Sarfatti Jacques Vallee James F. Woodward James Woodward JASON Dept of Defense Jeffrey Bub Jesse Ventura Jim Woodward John Archibald Wheeler John Baez John Cramer John S. Bell Ken Peacock Kip Thorne Kornel Lanczos La Boheme Laputa Large Hadron Collider Lenny Susskind Leonard Susskind Levi-Civita connection LHC CERN libel Louis de Broglie Lubos Motl LUX Lynn Picknett M-Theory Mach's Principle Mae Jemison Making Starships and Star Gates Martin Rees Mathematical Mind MATRIX Matter-AntiMatter Asymmetry Max Tegmark Menas Kafatos Michael Persinger Michael Towler microtubules Milky way MIT MOSSAD multiverse NASA Nick Bostrum Nick Herbert Nobel Prize nonlocality Obama organized-stalking Origin of Inertia P. A. M. Dirac P.K.Dick P.W. Anderson Paranormal parapsychology Paul Werbos Perimeter Institute Petraeus Physical Review Letters Physics Today Post-Quantum Physics pre-Big Bang precognition presponse PSI WARS Psychic Repression qualia Quantum Chromodynamics quantum computers quantum entanglement quantum field theory quantum gravity Quantum Information Theory Quantum Theory RAF Spitfires Ray Chiao Red Chinese Remote Viewing retrocausality Reviews of Modern Physics Richard Feynman Richard P. Feynman Rindler effect Robert Anton Wilson Robert Bigelow Roger Penrose rotating black holes Roy Glauber Rupert Sheldrake Russell Targ Ruth Elinor Kastner S-Matrix Sagnac effect Sam Ting Sanford Underground Research Facility Sarfatti Lectures in Physics Scientific American Second Law of Thermodynamics Seth Lloyd signal nonlocality Skinwalker Ranch social networks space drive space-time crystal SPECTRA - UFO COMPUTER spontaneous broken symmetry SRI Remote Viewing Experiments Stanford Physics Stanford Research Institute Star Gate Star Ship Star Trek Q Stargate Starship Stephen Hawking Steven Weinberg stretched membrane string theory strong force gluons Stuart Hameroff superconducting meta-material supersymmetry symmetries telepathy Templeton The Guardian Thought Police time crystal time travel topological computers Topological Computing torsion UFO Unitarity unitary S-Matrix false? Unruh effect Uri Geller VALIS virtual particle Virtual Reality Warp Drive weak force Wheeler-Feynman WIMP WMAP WMD world crystal lattice wormhole Yakir Aharonov Yuri Milner

- November 2015(1)
- January 2015(1)
- December 2014(1)
- August 2014(2)
- July 2014(2)
- June 2014(2)
- May 2014(1)
- April 2014(6)
- March 2014(6)
- February 2014(1)
- January 2014(3)
- December 2013(5)
- November 2013(8)
- October 2013(13)
- September 2013(8)
- August 2013(12)
- July 2013(3)
- June 2013(32)
- May 2013(3)
- April 2013(6)
- March 2013(6)
- February 2013(15)
- January 2013(5)
- December 2012(15)
- November 2012(15)
- October 2012(18)
- September 2012(12)
- August 2012(15)
- July 2012(30)
- June 2012(13)
- May 2012(18)
- April 2012(12)
- March 2012(28)
- February 2012(15)
- January 2012(25)
- December 2011(29)
- November 2011(30)
- October 2011(39)
- September 2011(22)
- August 2011(41)
- July 2011(42)
- June 2011(24)
- May 2011(13)
- April 2011(13)
- March 2011(15)
- February 2011(17)
- January 2011(31)
- December 2010(19)
- November 2010(22)
- October 2010(31)
- September 2010(41)
- August 2010(30)
- July 2010(27)
- June 2010(12)
- May 2010(20)
- April 2010(19)
- March 2010(27)
- February 2010(34)