Text Size
Facebook Twitter More...


On Oct 31, 2011, at 5:14 PM, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. wrote:

The point is, in so far as relativity is a geometrical theory, it is devoid of physics!


JS: Agreed. But this is true of all pure mathematics. There is no quantum theory in the math of Hilbert space without additional information connecting the symbols to operational lab procedures at least in principle.


In a message dated 10/31/2011 8:08:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. writes:
On 10/31/2011 4:42 PM, JACK SARFATTI wrote:

JS: Gerry is correct.

The physical content of relativity is how detectors compare their measurements of the same events. This is inherently classical without Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. This is why quantum gravity is so difficult.

Z: If this is true, then all classical physics is "relativity". Observing a an object in 3D space from different angles would be "relativity".

JS: True and false. The point is what is the group of observer/detector frame transformations.

In Galilean relativity it's the 10-parameter Galilean group with c ---> infinity.

Obviously there is more to "relativity" than that. What is it?

The choice of group  (Galilean, Poincare, Conformal, de Sitter etc.) and organizing principles like

1) invariance of speed of light in vacuum

2) equivalence principle, i.e. elimination of COM g-force in LIFs  - note curvature's presence or absence is completely irrelevant.

Answer: It is that the same physics is observed to operate in all inertial frames of reference.

For 1905 special relativity. But that is not enough. Also need invariance of vacuum speed of light - independent postulate.

Z: But that is not about tensor covariance. If it were, then any classical physical theory would obey the relativity principle
when covariantly formulated.

JS: Well known - again what's missing is invariant c in vacuum.

?: So I think you are barking up the wrong tree here Jack. Relativity is not about the behavior of physical quantities under
spacetime coordinate transformations. It's about the objective uniformity of spacetime.


Not sure who wrote this, but it's wrong. Curved spacetime in GR is not uniform in the general case. Indeed, this is why naive application of Noether's theorem leads to the gravity energy problem.

The universe on cosmological scale is not time translation invariant. Therefore, no reason to think total energy is conserved. Indeed, the total dark energy is not conserved when its energy density ~ /\ is constant.

Z: A theory can always be put in covariant form whether it obeys the Poincare relativity principle or not.


Again this is old-hat. The physics of 1905 SR is invariance of vacuum c.

The physics of 1915 GR  EEP, i.e. the zero COM g-force on LIF detectors independent of presence or absence of curvature.


Category: MyBlog

Categories ...

't Hooft 100 Year Star Ship Abner Shimony accelerometers action-reaction principle Aephraim Sternberg Alan Turing Albert Einstein Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer American Institute of Physics Andrija Puharich Anthony Valentin Anton Zeilinger Antony Valentini anyon Apple Computer Artificial Intelligence Asher Peres Back From The Future Basil Hiley Bell's theorem Ben Affleck Ben Libet Bernard Carr Bill Clinton black body radiation Black Hole black hole firewall black hole information paradox black holes Bohm brain waves Brian Josephson Broadwell Cambridge University Carnot Heat Engine Central Intelligence Agency CIA Clive Prince closed time like curves coherent quantum state Consciousness conservation laws Cosmic Landscape Cosmological Constant cosmology CTC cyber-bullying Dancing Wu Li Masters Dark Energy Dark Matter DARPA Daryl Bem David Bohm David Deutsch David Gross David Kaiser David Neyland David Tong de Sitter horizon Dean Radin Deepak Chopra delayed choice Demetrios A. Kalamidas Demetrios Kalamidas Dennis Sciama Destiny Matrix Dick Bierman Doppler radars E8 group Einstein's curved spacetime gravity Einstein's happiest thought electromagnetism Eli Cartan EMP Nuclear Attack entanglement signals ER=EPR Eric Davis Ernst Mach ET Eternal Chaotic Inflation evaporating black holes Facebook Faster-Than-Light Signals? fictitious force firewall paradox flying saucers FQXi Frank Tipler Frank Wilczek Fred Alan Wolf Free Will G.'t Hooft Garrett Moddel Gary Zukav gauge theory general relativity Geometrodynamics Gerard 't Hooft Giancarlo Ghirardi God Goldstone theorem gravimagnetism gravity Gravity - the movie gravity gradiometers gravity tetrads Gravity Waves Gregory Corso gyroscopes hacking quantum cryptographs Hagen Kleinert Hal Puthoff Hawking radiation Heisenberg Henry Stapp Herbert Gold Higgs boson Higgs field hologram universe Horizon How the Hippies Saved Physics I.J. Good ICBMs Igor Novikov inertial forces inertial navigation Inquisition Internet Iphone Iran Isaac Newton Israel Jack Sarfatti Jacques Vallee James F. Woodward James Woodward JASON Dept of Defense Jeffrey Bub Jesse Ventura Jim Woodward John Archibald Wheeler John Baez John Cramer John S. Bell Ken Peacock Kip Thorne Kornel Lanczos La Boheme Laputa Large Hadron Collider Lenny Susskind Leonard Susskind Levi-Civita connection LHC CERN libel Louis de Broglie Lubos Motl LUX Lynn Picknett M-Theory Mach's Principle Mae Jemison Making Starships and Star Gates Martin Rees Mathematical Mind MATRIX Matter-AntiMatter Asymmetry Max Tegmark Menas Kafatos Michael Persinger Michael Towler microtubules Milky way MIT MOSSAD multiverse NASA Nick Bostrum Nick Herbert Nobel Prize nonlocality Obama organized-stalking Origin of Inertia P. A. M. Dirac P.K.Dick P.W. Anderson Paranormal parapsychology Paul Werbos Perimeter Institute Petraeus Physical Review Letters Physics Today Post-Quantum Physics pre-Big Bang precognition presponse PSI WARS Psychic Repression qualia Quantum Chromodynamics quantum computers quantum entanglement quantum field theory quantum gravity Quantum Information Theory Quantum Theory RAF Spitfires Ray Chiao Red Chinese Remote Viewing retrocausality Reviews of Modern Physics Richard Feynman Richard P. Feynman Rindler effect Robert Anton Wilson Robert Bigelow Roger Penrose rotating black holes Roy Glauber Rupert Sheldrake Russell Targ Ruth Elinor Kastner S-Matrix Sagnac effect Sam Ting Sanford Underground Research Facility Sarfatti Lectures in Physics Scientific American Second Law of Thermodynamics Seth Lloyd signal nonlocality Skinwalker Ranch social networks space drive space-time crystal SPECTRA - UFO COMPUTER spontaneous broken symmetry SRI Remote Viewing Experiments Stanford Physics Stanford Research Institute Star Gate Star Ship Star Trek Q Stargate Starship Stephen Hawking Steven Weinberg stretched membrane string theory strong force gluons Stuart Hameroff superconducting meta-material supersymmetry symmetries telepathy Templeton The Guardian Thought Police time crystal time travel topological computers Topological Computing torsion UFO Unitarity unitary S-Matrix false? Unruh effect Uri Geller VALIS virtual particle Virtual Reality Warp Drive weak force Wheeler-Feynman WIMP WMAP WMD world crystal lattice wormhole Yakir Aharonov Yuri Milner