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Some new additions to my Stargate book

Stargate 
Making Star Trek Real
Jack Sarfatti
Internet Science Education Project
Foreword

“The future, and the future alone, is the home of explanation.”
Henry Dwight Sedgwick 

“Sarfatti's Cave is the name I'll give to the Caffe Trieste in San Francisco, where Jack Sarfatti, Ph.D. in physics, writes his poetry, evokes his mystical, miracle-working ancestors, and has conducted a several-decade-long seminar on the nature of reality … to a rapt succession of espresso scholars. ... It's Jack Sarfatti against the world, and he is indomitable. …One of his soaring theories is that things which have not happened yet can cause events in the present.” Gold, Herbert. Bohemia: Where Art, Angst, Love & Strong Coffee Meet. 

There is now a significant body of results on quantum interactions with closed timelike curves (CTCs) in the quantum information literature, … As a consequence, there is a prima facie argument exploiting entanglement that CTC interactions would enable superluminal and, indeed, effectively instantaneous signaling. …. Using the consistency condition, we show that there is a procedure that allows Alice to signal to Bob in the past via relayed superluminal communications between spacelike-separated Alice and Clio, and spacelike-separated Clio and Bob. This opens the door to time travel paradoxes in the classical domain … offering a possible window on what we might expect in a future theory of quantum gravity. Quantum interactions with closed timelike curves and superluminal signaling, Jeffrey Bub and Allen Stairs, PHYSICAL REVIEW A 89, 022311 (2014)

‘In this case, Bob possesses the unknown state even before Alice implements the teleportation. Causality is not violated because Bob cannot foresee Alice’s measurement result, which is completely random. But, if we could pick out only the proper result, the resulting “projective” teleportation would allow us to travel along spacelike intervals, to escape from black holes, or to travel in time.” Seth Lloyd et-al 

This is a series of blog essays about teleological destiny, quick time travel to colonize Earthlike exoplanets through stargates, and the possibility that we are three-dimensional hologram images in a virtual reality programmed by a cosmological conscious super-intelligence that is alive and well on our future two-dimensional dark energy edge of space that we can ever hope to see with light signals. My speculative hypothesis-conjecture of this book is that our idea of time and cause and effect is profoundly wrong. In particular the “unproven theorem paradox” of time travel is not a paradox at all.
“The “unproved theorem” paradox points out that if there are CTCs, then it might be possible to take a published proof of a theorem into the past and present it to someone, who then uses it to produce the very manuscript that leads to the theorem’s publication Bub & Stairs op-cit 

Evidence on “brain presponse” (Libet, Radin, Bierman, Bem) suggests that our consciousness and creativity are such meme self-creating strange loops. The universe does only not emerge out of the past, but is also pulled toward the future for a purpose. This idea is not new in philosophy, but has reappeared in physics starting with the work of John Archibald Wheeler and Richard Feynman in the 1940s. This back-from-the-future effect is needed to understand the nature of both dark matter and dark energy that is most of the stuff in our accelerating universe and most importantly to understand our own consciousness and how to reach the stars and beyond.
 
Jack Sarfatti
6 minutes ago via Twitter
  •  
    http://t.co/1Su7kSJkJk
    Phys. Rev. A 89, 022311 (2014) - Quantum interactions with closed timelike curves and...
    journals.aps.org
    There is now a significant body of results on quantum interactions with closed timelike curves (CTCs) in the quantum information literature, for both the Deutsch model of CTC interactions (D-CTCs) and the projective model (P-CTCs). As a consequence, there is a prima facie argument exploiting entangl…
     
     
     
  • Jack Sarfatti "There is now a significant body of results on quantum interactions with closed timelike curves (CTCs) in the quantum information literature, for both the Deutsch model of CTC interactions (D-CTCs) and the projective model (P-CTCs). As a consequence, there is a prima facie argument exploiting entanglement that CTC interactions would enable superluminal and, indeed, effectively instantaneous signaling. In cases of spacelike separation between the sender of a signal and the receiver, whether a receiver measures the local part of an entangled state or a disentangled state to access the signal can depend on the reference frame. We propose a consistency condition that gives priority to either an entangled perspective or a disentangled perspective in spacelike-separated scenarios. For D-CTC interactions, the consistency condition gives priority to frames of reference in which the state is disentangled, while for P-CTC interactions the condition selects the entangled state. Using the consistency condition, we show that there is a procedure that allows Alice to signal to Bob in the past via relayed superluminal communications between spacelike-separated Alice and Clio, and spacelike-separated Clio and Bob. This opens the door to time travel paradoxes in the classical domain. Ralph [T. C. Ralph, arXiv:1107.4675 [quant-ph].] first pointed this out for P-CTCs, but we show that Ralph's procedure for a “radio to the past” is flawed. Since both D-CTCs and P-CTCs allow classical information to be sent around a spacetime loop, it follows from a result by Aaronson and Watrous [S. Aaronson and J. Watrous, Proc. R. Soc. A 465, 631 (2009)] for CTC-enhanced classical computation that a quantum computer with access to P-CTCs would have the power of PSPACE, equivalent to a D-CTC-enhanced quantum computer."
  • Jack Sarfatti This is high octane fuel for my starship warp engine with Q continuum telepathic psychokinetic mind-control. 
Jack Sarfatti shared a link.
From: JACK SARFATTI <jacksarfatti@icloud.com>
Subject: John Cramer's alleged claim on retrocausal signaling & Anton Zeilinger
Date: November 26, 2013 at 9:14:30 AM PST
To: James Woodward Woodward <jfwoodward@juno.com>, John Cramer <cramer@phys.washington.edu>

If true, this fits in with my Stargate book's main theme. 

https://www.academia.edu/5203735/Sarfattis_Stargate_Book_Version_of_Nov_24_2013_Work_in_Progress_

Can you provide some details please so I can cite it?

On Nov 25, 2013, at 12:45 AM, jfwoodward@juno.com wrote:

On the good news front, though, I can report that John thinks he's found a way around the no signaling argument that Anton Zeilinger laid on him at the end of September. So the possibility of retrocausal signaling is back on the table.
Hawking's absolute blackhole horizon is teleological very much like Dirac's radiation reaction one needs back from the future influence. This also reminds us of John Cramer's transaction, Aharonov's destiny wave. Wheeler Feynman and all that. Aristotle's final cause. The Absolute horizon feels the future.
See Kip Thorne's Ch 12 black holes and time warps

Sent from my iPad using Siri
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  • Jack Sarfatti Stargate
    Making Star Trek Real
    Jack Sarfatti
    Internet Science Education Project
    Foreword

    Sing Heav'nly Muse, that on the secret topOf Oreb, or of Sinai, didst inspireThat Shepherd, who first taught the chosen Seed,In the Beginning how the Heav'ns and EarthRose out of Chaos: Or if Sion Hill [ 10 ]Delight thee more, and Siloa's Brook that flow'dFast by the Oracle of God; I thenceInvoke thy aid to my adventrous Song,That with no middle flight intends to soarAbove th' Aonian Mount, while it pursues [ 15 ]Things unattempted yet in Prose or Rhime.And chiefly Thou O Spirit, that dost preferBefore all Temples th' upright heart and pure,Instruct me, for Thou know'st; Thou from the firstWast present, and with mighty wings outspread [ 20 ]Dove-like satst brooding on the vast AbyssAnd mad'st it pregnant: What in me is darkIllumin, what is low raise and support;That to the highth of this great ArgumentI may assert Eternal Providence, [ 25 ]And justifie the wayes of God to men. John Milton, Paradise Lost

    In another moment Alice was through the glass, and had jumped lightly down into the Looking-glass room. Lewis Carroll

    All our space-time verifications invariably amount to a determination of space-time coincidences. If, for example, events consisted merely in the motion of material points, then ultimately nothing would be observable but the meeting of two or more of these points. Moreover, the results of our measuring are nothing but verifications of such meetings of the material points of our measuring instruments with other material points, coincidences between the hands of a clock and points on the clock dial, and observed point-events happening at the same place at the same time. The introduction of a system of reference serves no other purpose than to facilitate the description of the totality of such coincidences. Albert Einstein, “Grundlage der allgemeinen Relativitätstheorie”, Annalen der Physik, 49 (1916) 

    “That with no middle flight intends to soar …”
    “A wormhole is a hypothetical shortcut for travel between distant points in the universe. The wormhole has two entrances called ‘mouths,’ one (for example) near Earth, and the other (for example) in orbit around Vega, 26 light years away. The mouths are connected to each other by a tunnel through hyperspace (the wormhole) that might be only a kilometer long. If we enter the near-Earth mouth, we find ourselves in the tunnel. By traveling just one kilometer down the tunnel we reach the other mouth and emerge near Vega, 26 light-years away as measured in the external universe.” Kip Thorne 

    Prior to the development of digital computers in the 20th century, the only systems on Earth, which incorporated bulk, reliable digital storage, were living organisms. DNA, neural networks and brains, and the adaptive immune system all have the ability to robustly store large quantities of information and retrieve it when needed. But storage is tough—each of these biological systems is enormously more complicated than any existing computer, and it took biology billions of years to evolve its second and third kinds of digital storage. The intertwined complexity of DNA and protein synthesis in even the simplest living cells is such that how it came to be remains one of the central mysteries of biological science, a conundrum so profound that one of the two discoverers of the structure of DNA, Nobel Prize winner Francis Crick, believes the first living cells were placed on Earth by intelligent aliens from elsewhere in the Galaxy. (But then how did the aliens get started?) John Walker, Computation, Memory, Nature, and Life
    Is digital storage the secret of life? 

    My new paradigm, my “great Argument” in this book, “things unattempted yet in” theoretical physics “And justifie the wayes of God to men,” is that Hawking’s chronology protection conjecture is wrong and that Crick’s “aliens” are actually future humans who have mastered time travel to the past through stargates and have found at least one that was created in the very early universe, which allows them to get to Earth and create us and obviously themselves in a physical globally self-consistent Godelian strange loop in time. In other words the time travel bootstrap paradox is not a paradox at all, but is the way reality works including our own consciousness.

    "Penrose and Israel … could not conceive of jettisoning the [local frame-dependent] apparent horizon as the definition of a black hole’s surface. They especially could not conceive of jettisoning it in favor of [Hawking’s local-frame independent] absolute horizon. Why? Because the absolute horizon – paradoxically, it might seem – violates our cherished notion that an effect should not precede its cause. When matter falls into a black hole, the absolute horizon starts to grow (“effect”) before the matter reaches it (“cause”). The horizon grows in anticipation that the matter will soon be swallowed and will increase the hole’s gravitational pull … The very definition of the absolute horizon depends on what will happen in the future: on whether or not signals will ultimately escape to the distant universe. … it is a teleological definition … that relies on “final causes”… Kip Thorne P. 417 Chapt 12, Black Holes and Time Warps.

    I suspect that Roger Penrose became more open to the teleological final cause paradigm explanation of Ben Libet’s brain presponse experiments because he realized his blunder in his initial reluctance to grok Hawking’s discovery, which itself, in a spooky Godelian strange loop precognitive way came to Hawking suddenly in November of 1970 as a kind of Biblical Revelations from The Voice that crieth in the wilderness of our universal precognitive remote viewing subconscious collective cosmic mind that comes to some rather more than others. Indeed, Hawking’s physical disability may make him more open to contact with advanced higher intelligences like a Tibetan Tulku in deep meditation? Thus, Kip writes earlier in his Chapter 12:
    "The Idea hit Stephen Hawking one evening in November 1970, as he was preparing for bed. It hit with such force that he was left almost gasping for air. Never before or since has an idea come to him so quickly. … The Idea excited him. He was ecstatic … He couldn’t sleep. His mind kept roaming over the Idea’s ramifications, its connections to other things." Pp.412-13

    Das aus sich rollende
    Art thou a new strength and a new authority? 
    A first motion? 
    A self-rolling wheel? 
    Canst thou also compel stars to revolve around thee?
    Friedrich Nietzsche Thus Spake Zarathustra



 if you use static coordinates

gtt = 1 - r^2/A

1 + z = [gtt(receiver)/gtt(source)]^1/2

use  r ~ A^1/2 - Lp  in gtt(source)  and r = 0 for gtt(receiver)

for advanced offer wave in the Cramer transaction

result is (first order Taylor series)

1 + z ~ (1/(Lp/A^1/2)^1/2) = (A^1/2/Lp)^1/2

---> infinity as Lp ---> 0

My argument in co-moving Friedmann coordinates below is consistent with the in static coordinates above.

As above
So below ;-)

Indeed Tamara Davis in her PhD says what I say about the change of distance to our past and future horizons It's obvious from her diagram (Fig 1.1)

We recede from our past particle horizon, we approach our future dark energy de Sitter horizon.

1) In a Cramer transaction a retarded offer wave to us from near our past horizon is redshifted.

An advanced confirmation wave from us to near our past particle horizon is blue shifted.


Our relative space is effectively expanding forward in time in this transaction with our past horizon.

2) In a Cramer transaction an advanced offer wave to use from our future horizon is redshifted.

A retarded confirmation wave from us to it is blue shifted.

Our relative space is effectively contracting forward in time in this transaction with our future horizon.

Therefore, it is effectively expanding backwards in time for a back from the future advanced wave to us.

Advanced Wheeler-Feynman Hawking black body radiation of peak energy hc/Lp is then redshifted down to hc/(LpA^1/2)^1/2 at our detectors.

From Stefan-Boltzmann T^4 law this gives energy density hc/Lp^2A, which happens to agree with the actual dark energy density accelerating out causal diamond observable patch of the multiverse.

A = area of our future horizon at intersection with our future light cone.


The co-moving distance from us to our future horizon decreases forward in time.

The co-moving distance from us to our past horizon increases forward in time.

Virtual electron-positron pairs "stuck" on our future horizon are properly accelerating unlike real co-moving charges with zero proper acceleration AWAY from us. Therefore, using Doppler analogy radiation from them to us is redshifted. The virtual pairs are elevated to real pairs by the very hot Unruh radiation they feel locally. This is all in relation to us distant observers according to Susskind's "horizon complementarity".

proper acceleration of the virtual electron positron pairs stuck on the horizon is

g(r) = -(c^2/2)gtt^-1/2dgtt/dr

in static LNIF coordinates ONLY

gtt = 1 - r^2/A

dgtt/dr = -2r/A

g(r) = +c^2(1 - r^2/A)^-1/2r/A

note that we are at r = 0.

IN CONTRAST, for comoving sources in usual FRW coordinates  gt't' = 1 so g'(r) = 0.

For details see Wikipedia.

Apple's Killer App for Iphone? Photographing & videoing the future? P.K. Dick rises from his grave. ;-)
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  • Jack Sarfatti Begin forwarded message:

    From: JACK SARFATTI <sarfatti@pacbell.net>
    Subject: [ExoticPhysics] Spacelike (FTL) Entanglement Signals with Trapped Ions? "magic wand" Apple's killer app. ; -)
    Date: February 11, 2013 8:22:02 PM PST
    To: Exotic Physics <exoticphysics@mail.softcafe.net>
    Reply-To: Jack Sarfatti's Workshop in Advanced Physics <exoticphysics@mail.softcafe.net>

    Indeed, unless I am mistaken, this ultimately solid state system can be packaged into an Apple I phone to take photographs of the future seen in the past.

    "6.5. Quantum Teleportation Mechanical States
    Analogous to continuous-variable teleportation of optical states [220], one can teleport the quantum state of one mechanical oscillator to the other, if two entangled squeezed
    beams are used to drive them, each of their positions are measured | and with results fed back to the other one (as shown in Fig. 18).

    http://xxx.lanl.gov/pdf/1302.1924.pdf

    Imagine we can do Fig 18 with phonons rather than photons in some long crystal rod.

    Each mechanical oscillator A & B is a trapped ion with internal qubits 1,0 eigenvalues at the two ends of the crystal rod ("magick wand" ;-))

    The coherent phonon Glauber states are z & z' for the center of mass motions of the ions.

    The initial state is

    |A,B>i =(1/2)^1/2[|1>A|z>A + |0>A|z'>A + |1>B|z>B + |0>B|z'>B]

    after the entanglement swapping via teleportation of the Glauber coherent phonon states the prepared final state is

    |A,B>f = (1/2)^1/2[|1>A|z>B + |0>A|z'>B + |1>B|z>A + |0>B|z'>A]

    Use the Born rule in density matrix trace formalism to get e.g.

    P(1)A = (1/2)(1 + | B<z|z'>B |^2)

    This violates the parameter independence no-signal arguments of orthodox quantum theory because the Glauber coherent states are macroscopically distinguishable and non-orthogonal.

    The Born probability rule breaks down in Antony Valentini's sense for Glauber states when they are entangled with other states.

    P(1)A + P(0)A = 1 + | B<z|z'>B |^2

    Not only can A & B be spacelike separated, but we can operate the "magick wand" in Wheeler delayed choice mode in which a tiny video camera is at B which transmits images and audio from A's future back to A in the past.

    Indeed, this solid state system can be packaged into an Apple I phone to take photographs of the future.

    No doubt those ET's in their magnificent flying disks have such crystals?

    _______________________________________________
    ExoticPhysics mailing list
    ExoticPhysics@mail.softcafe.net
    http://mail.softcafe.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/exoticphysics
    xxx.lanl.gov


Jack Sarfatti This is hot. If the effect works it's the basis for a new Intel, Microsoft & Apple combined for those smart venture capitalists, physicists & engineers who get into it. This is as close as we have ever come since I started the ball rolling at Brandeis in 1960-61 & then in mid-70's see MIT Physics Professor David Kaiser's "How the Hippies Save Physics". I first saw this as a dim possibility in 1960 at Brandeis grad school and got into an intellectual fight about it with Sylvan Schweber and Stanley Deser. Then the flawed thought experiment published in the early editions of Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters in 1979 - pictured in Hippies book tried to do what DK may now have actually done. That is, control the fringe visibility at one end of an entangled system from the other end without the need of a coincidence counter correlator after the fact. Of course, like Nick Herbert's FLASH at the same time late 70's, it was too naive to work and the nonlinear optics technology was not yet developed enough. We were far ahead of the curve as to the conceptual possibility of nonlocal retrocausal entanglement signaling starting 53 years ago at Brandeis when I was a National Defense Fellow Title IV graduate student.

Jack Sarfatti

about an hour ago near San Francisco
On Feb 5, 2013, at 12:28 PM, JACK SARFATTI <sarfatti@pacbell.net> wrote:

Thanks Nick. Keep up the good work. I hope to catch up with you on this soon. This may be a historic event of the first magnitude if the Fat Lady really sings this time and shatters the crystal goblet. On the Dark Side this may open Pandora's Box into a P.K. Dick Robert Anton Wilson reality with controllable delayed choice precognition technology. ;-)

On Feb 5, 2013, at 10:38 AM, nick herbert <quanta@cruzio.com> wrote:

Demetrios--

Looking over your wonderful paper I have detected one
inconsistency but it is not fatal to your argument.

On page 3 you drop two r terms because "alpha", the complex
amplitude of the coherent state can be arbitrarily large in
magnitude.

But on page 4 you reduce the magnitude of "alpha" so that
at most one photon is reflected. So now alpha cannot be
arbitrarily large in magnitude.

But this is just minor quibble in an otherwise superb argument.

This move does not affect your conclusion--which seems
to directly follow from application of the Feynman Rule: For distinguishable
outcomes, add probabilities; for indistinguishable outcomes, add amplitudes.

To help my own understanding of how your scheme works,
I have simplified your KISS proposal by replacing your coherent states with
the much simpler state |U> = x|0> + y|1>. I call this variation of your proposal KISS(U)

When this state |U> is mixed with the entangled states at the beamsplitters,
the same conclusion ensues: there are two |1>|1> results on Bob's side of the source
that cannot be distinguished -- and hence must be amplitude added.

The state |U> would be more difficult to prepare in the lab than a weak coherent state
but anything goes in a thought experiment. The main advantage of using state |U>
instead of coherent states is that the argument is simplified to its essence and needs
no approximations. Also the KISS(U) version shows that your argument is independent
of special properties possessed by coherent states such as overcompleteness and non-
orthogonality. The state |U> is both complete and orthogonal -- and works just as well
to prove your preposterous conclusion. --- that there is at least one way of making photon
measurements that violates the No-Signaling Theorem.

Thanks for injecting some fresh excitement into the FTL signaling conversation.

warm regards
Nick Herbert
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David Fernando López Torres, Keith Kenemer and 2 others like this.
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Jack Sarfatti On Feb 5, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Demetrios Kalamidas <dakalamidas@sci.ccny.cuny.edu> wrote:

Nope, no refutation I can think of so far....and I've tried hard.
Demetrios
...See More
33 minutes ago · Like

Joe Ganser Jack do you know a lot of people at CUNY? I take ph.d classes there.
26 minutes ago · Like

Joe Ganser I'm interested in who may do these sorts of topics in NYC
25 minutes ago · Like

Jack Sarfatti Daniel Greenberger!
9 minutes ago · Like · 1

a few seconds ago · Like

 

On Feb 5, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Demetrios Kalamidas <dakalamidas@sci.ccny.cuny.edu> wrote:

Nope, no refutation I can think of so far....and I've tried hard.
Demetrios

On Tue, 5 Feb 2013 13:09:28 -0800
nick herbert <quanta@cruzio.com> wrote:
Thanks, Demetrios. I understand now that alpha can be large
while alpha x r is made small. Also I notice that your FTL signaling scheme seems to work both ways. In your illustration the photons on the left side (Alice) are  combined at a 50/50 beam splitter so they cannot be used for which-way information. However if the 50/50 beamsplitter is removed, which-way info is present and the two versions of |1>|1> on the right-hand side (Bob) are now  distinguishable
and must be added incoherently, which presumably will give a  different answer and observably different behavior by Bob's  right-side detectors. So your scheme seems consistent -- FTL signals can be sent in either  direction.
This is looking pretty scary.
Do you happen to have a refutation up your sleeve
or are you just as baffled by this as the rest of us?
Nick

 

 

Therefore, Nick it is premature for you to claim that the full machinery of the Glauber coherent states, i.e. distinguishable over-complete non-orthogonality is not necessary for KISS to work. Let's not rush to judgement and proceed with caution. This technology, if it were to work is as momentous as the discovery of fire, the wheel, movable type, calculus, the steam engine, electricity, relativity, nuclear fission & fusion, Turing machine & Von Neumann's programmable computer concept, DNA, transistor, internet ...

On Feb 5, 2013, at 12:18 PM, Demetrios Kalamidas <dakalamidas@sci.ccny.cuny.edu> wrote:

Hi Nick,

 And thanks much for your careful examination of my scheme....however, there appears to be a misunderstanding.
 Let me explain:

"On page 3 you drop two r terms because "alpha", the complex amplitude of the coherent state can be arbitrarily large in magnitude."

I drop the two terms in eq.5b because they are proportional to 'r'....and 'r' approaches zero. However, the INITIAL INPUT amplitude, 'alpha', of each coherent state can be as large as we desire in order to get whatever SMALL BUT NONVANISHING AND SIGNIFICANT product 'r*alpha', which is related to the terms I retain.

In other words, for whatever 'r*alpha' we want, lets say 'r*alpha'=0.2, 'r' can be as close to zero as we want since we can always input a coherent state with large enough initial 'alpha' to give us the 0.2 amplitude that we want.

So, terms proportional to 'r' are vanishing, while terms proportional to 'r*alpha' are small but significant and observable.
You state:

"But on page 4 you reduce the magnitude of "alpha" so that at most one photon is reflected. So now alpha cannot be arbitrarily large in magnitude."

The magnitude of 'alpha' is for the INITIAL coherent states coming from a3 and b3, BEFORE they are split at BSa and BSb. It is this 'alpha' that is pre-adjusted, according to how small 'r' is, to give us an appropriately small reflected magnitude, i.e. 'r*alpha'=0.2, so that the "....weak coherent state containing at most one photon...." condition is reasonably valid.

Demetrios


On Feb 5, 2013, at 12:28 PM, JACK SARFATTI <sarfatti@pacbell.net> wrote:

Thanks Nick. Keep up the good work. I hope to catch up with you on this soon. This may be a historic event of the first magnitude if the Fat Lady really sings this time and shatters the crystal goblet. On the Dark Side this may open Pandora's Box into a P.K. Dick Robert Anton Wilson reality with controllable delayed choice precognition technology. ;-)

On Feb 5, 2013, at 10:38 AM, nick herbert <quanta@cruzio.com> wrote:

Demetrios--

Looking over your wonderful paper I have detected one
inconsistency but it is not fatal to your argument.

On page 3 you drop two r terms because "alpha", the complex
amplitude of the coherent state can be arbitrarily large in
magnitude.

But on page 4 you reduce the magnitude of "alpha" so that
at most one photon is reflected. So now alpha cannot be
arbitrarily large in magnitude.

But this is just minor quibble in an otherwise superb argument.

This move does not affect your conclusion--which seems
to directly follow from application of the Feynman Rule: For distinguishable
outcomes, add probabilities; for indistinguishable outcomes, add amplitudes.

To help my own understanding of how your scheme works,
I have simplified your KISS proposal by replacing your coherent states with
the much simpler state |U> = x|0> + y|1>. I call this variation of your proposal KISS(U)

When this state |U> is mixed with the entangled states at the beamsplitters,
the same conclusion ensues: there are two |1>|1> results on Bob's side of the source
that cannot be distinguished -- and hence must be amplitude added.

The state |U> would be more difficult to prepare in the lab than a weak coherent state
but anything goes in a thought experiment. The main advantage of using state |U>
instead of coherent states is that the argument is simplified to its essence and needs
no approximations. Also the KISS(U) version shows that your argument is independent
of special properties possessed by coherent states such as overcompleteness and non-
orthogonality. The state |U> is both complete and orthogonal -- and works just as well
to prove your preposterous conclusion. --- that there is at least one way of making photon
measurements that violates the No-Signaling Theorem.

Thanks for injecting some fresh excitement into the FTL signaling conversation.

warm regards
Nick Herbert


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      Explaining the Paranormal with Physics - Debate with Garrett Moddel
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  4. Explaining the Paranormal with Physics
    • Jack Sarfatti Garret Moddel
      Professor, Electrical, Computer & Energy Engineering
      University of Colorado
      Quantum Engineering Lab: http://ecee.colorado.edu/~moddel/QEL/index.html
      PsiPhen Lab: http://psiphen.colorado.edu On Jan 17, 2013, at 6:17 PM, Garret Moddel wrote:

      Thank you for the respect!

      The answer is clearly not (1), but that does not mean it is (2). It could be none of the above.

      Jack: Again I strongly disagree. You are opting for no-explanation or perhaps a non-scientific supernatural explanation. It's obvious to my mind, and I think to many others that quantum entanglement when supplemented with signal nonlocality beyond orthodox quantum theory has all the properties in a natural way that the evidence demands. Now, ultimately to paraphrase Einstein - the correspondence of theory with experiment depends upon the "free invention of the human imagination" into making a coherent narrative. Either you grok it or you don't. Ultimately it comes down to intuitive judgement I suppose. That one can sense events which have not happened before they happen, but which will happen in a Novikov loop in time makes perfect sense in the coherent narrative (paradigm) of entanglement + signal nonlocality. This idea is Popper falsifiable. Without signal nonlocality the kind of evidence you say you believe could not possibly occur.

      The basic no-signal arguments of orthodox quantum theory assert that looking locally at one part B of an entangled system will only show perfectly random noise independent of how one changes the parameter settings (e.g. orientation of a Stern-Gerlach magnet) of a detector of a distantly entangled part A. With signal nonlocality that is no longer the case and a non-random signal can be detected at B's detector depending on the local time sequence of parameter settings for A's detector - without the need for a classical signal key to decrypt the entangled message as in orthodox quantum theory. Moreover, the spatio-temporal separation between the paired detections of A & B do not matter at all. Entanglement is independent of the space-time separation between the irreversible detections of A & B even if A the active sender is in the timelike future of B the passive receiver.

      Bottom line, you are happy not to have any explanation rooted in known physical theory. I am not happy with that, given that there is a natural explanation available that only requires a minimal extension of quantum physics analogous to extending special relativity to general relativity, or extending classical mechanics to orthodox quantum mechanics, or re-interpreting classical thermodynamics in terms of kinetic theory of gases and then beyond to classical statistical mechanics.

      Garrett: If we had been discussing solutions to the ultraviolet catastrophe in the late 19th century and you offered me (1) classical thermodynamics, or (2) natural radical conservative extensions of orthodox Maxwell equations, that would be too limited a choice. None-of-the-above would have included the Planck distribution and quantum mechanics. We may well be in a similar situation here.

      Jack: I think you are making a simple problem more complex. To my mind at least entanglement with signal nonlocality is a perfectly obvious natural explanation and why you cannot see that surprises me.

      Garrett: The only way I know of to distinguish whether natural radical conservative extensions of orthodox quantum theory do resolve the issue would be if they provided testable, and falsifiable, predictions that are then tested.

      Jack: You have put the cart before the horse. The kinds of evidence you say you believe is precisely what to expect from entanglement + signal nonlocality! Indeed, the ABSENCE of the kind of evidence you say you believe would have been the POPPER FALSIFICATION of the entanglement + signal nonlocality explanation!

      Now, in dealing with human subjects of enormous complexity with many variables we cannot control, you can't expect the kind of quantitative comparison of numerical data with equations that we get in Newtonian celestial mechanics or in the radiative corrections to quantum electrodynamics etc. If you are looking for that, you won't get it. However, given the idea that entanglement + signal nonlocality is the mechanism of consciousness itself, one may hope to mimic it in the laboratory with nano-engineering naturally conscious solid-state android brains for example - conscious computers. Such things become thinkable scientifically.
    • Jack Sarfatti BTW in case you are not aware of this:
      Subquantum Information and Computation
      Antony Valentini
      (Submitted on 11 Mar 2002 (v1), last revised 12 Apr 2002 (this version, v2))
      It is argued that immense physical resources - for nonlocal communication, espionage, and exponentially-fast computation - are hidden from us by quantum noise, and that this noise is not fundamental but merely a property of an equilibrium state in which the universe happens to be at the present time. It is suggested that 'non-quantum' or nonequilibrium matter might exist today in the form of relic particles from the early universe. We describe how such matter could be detected and put to practical use. Nonequilibrium matter could be used to send instantaneous signals, to violate the uncertainty principle, to distinguish non-orthogonal quantum states without disturbing them, to eavesdrop on quantum key distribution, and to outpace quantum computation (solving NP-complete problems in polynomial time).
      Comments: 10 pages, Latex, no figures. To appear in 'Proceedings of the Second Winter Institute on Foundations of Quantum Theory and Quantum Optics: Quantum Information Processing', ed. R. Ghosh (Indian Academy of Science, Bangalore, 2002). Second version: shortened at editor's request; extra material on outpacing quantum computation (solving NP-complete problems in polynomial time)
      Subjects: Quantum Physics (quant-ph)
      Journal reference: Pramana - J. Phys. 59 (2002) 269-277
      DOI: 10.1007/s12043-002-0117-1
      Report number: Imperial/TP/1-02/15
      Cite as: arXiv:quant-ph/0203049
      (or arXiv:quant-ph/0203049v2 for this version)
      Submission history
      Excerpts from
    • Jack Sarfatti Theoretical model of a purported empirical violation of the predictions of quantum theory

      Henry P. Stapp

      (Originally published in Physical Review A, Vol.50, No.1, July 1994)

      ABSTRACT: A generalization of Weinberg's nonlinear quantum theory is used to model a reported violation of the predictions of orthodox quantum theory.
      I. INTRODUCTION

      This work concerns the possibility of causal anomalies. By a causal anomaly I mean a theoretical or empirical situation in which the occurrence or nonoccurrence of an observable event at one time must apparently depend upon a subsequently generated (pseudo) random number, or willful human act.

      Considerations of the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen [1] and Bell's-Theorem [2] type entail [3] -- if many-world's interpretations are excluded -- the occurrence of causal anomalies on the theoretical level, provided certain predictions of quantum theory are at least approximately valid. However, those anomalies cannot manifest on the empirical level if the quantum predictions hold exactly [4]. On the other hand, slight departures from the exact validity of the quantum predictions [5] could lead to small but observable causal anomalies [6].

      Empirical causal anomalies have been reported in the past in experiments that appear, at least superficially, to have been conducted in accordance with scientific procedures [7], and the protocols are becoming ever more stringent [8]. I do not enter into the difficult question of assessing the reliability of these reports. The scientific community generally looks upon them with skepticism. But at least part of this skepticism originates not from specific challenges to the protocols and procedures of the works of, for example, Jahn, Dobyns and Dunne [7], but from the belief that such results are not compatible with well-established principles of physics, and hence to be excluded on theoretical grounds. However, it turns out that small modifications of the standard quantum principles would allow some of the most impossible sounding of the reported phenomena to be accommodated. According to the report in Ref. [8], it would appear that in certain experimental situations willfull human acts, selected by pseudorandom numbers generated at one time, can shift, relative to the randomness predicted by normal quantum theory, the timings of radioactive decays that were detected and recorded months earlier on floppy discs, but that were not observed at that time by any human observer. Such an influence of an observer backward in time on atomic events seems completely at odds with physical theory. However, a slight modification of normal quantum theory can accommodate the reported data. In the scientific study of any reported phenomena it is hard to make progress without a theoretical description that ties them in a coherent way into the rest physics.

      The purpose of the present work is to construct, on the basis of an extension of Weinberg's nonlinear generalization of quantum theory [5], a theoretical model that would accommodate causal anomalies of the kind described above. Specifically, the present work shows that the reported phenomena, although incompatible with the main currents of contemporary scientific thought, can be theoretically modeled in a coherent and relatively simple way by combining certain ideas of von Neumann and Pauli abut the interpretation of quantum theory with Weinberg's nonlinear generalization of the quantum formalism.

      II. THE THEORETICAL MODEL

      To retain the mathematical structure of quantum theory almost intact, I shall exploit the ideas of von Neumann [9] and Pauli [10], according to which the von Neumann process number 1 (reduction of the wave packet) is physically associated with the mental process of the observer. It is interesting that two of our most rigorous-minded mathematical physicists should both be inclined to favor an idea that is so contrary to our normal idea of the nature of the physical world. most physicists have, I think, preferred to accept the common-sense idea that the world of macroscopic material properties is factual: e.g., that the Geiger counter either fires or does not fire, independently of whether any observer has witnessed it; and that the mark on the photographic plate is either there or not there, whether anyone observes it or not. Yet it is difficult to reconcile this common-sense intuition with the mathematical formalism of quantum theory. For there is in that structure no natural breakpoint in the chain of events that leads from an atomic event that initiates the chain to the brain event associated with the resulting observational experience. From the perspective of the mathematical physicist the imposition of a breakpoint at any purely physical level is arbitrary and awkward: it would break the close connection between mathematics and the physical world in a way that is mathematically unnatural, and moreover lacks any empirical or scientific justification. From a purely logical perspective it seems preferable to accept the uniformity of nature's link between the mathematical and physical worlds, rather than to inject, without any logical or empirical reason, our notoriously fallible intuitions about the nature of physical reality.
    • Jack Sarfatti Following, then, the mathematics, instead of intuition, I shall adopt the assumption that the Schrodinger equation holds uniformly in the physical world. That is, I shall adopt the view that the physical universe, represented by the quantum state of the universe, consists merely of a set of tendencies that entail statistical links between mental events.

      In fact, this point of view is not incompatible with the Copenhagen interpretation, which, although epistemological rather than ontological in character [11], rests on the central fact that in science we deal, perforce, with connections between human observations: the rest of science is a theoretical imagery whose connection to reality must remain forever uncertain.

      According to this point of view, expressed however in ontological terms, the various possibilities in regard to the detection of a radioactive decay remain in a state of "possibility" or "potentiality," even after the results are recorded on magnetic tape: no reduction of the wave packet occurs until some pertinent mental event occurs.

      By adopting this non-common-sense point of view, we shift the problem raised by the reported results from that of accounting for an influence of willful thoughts occurring at one time upon radioactive decays occurring months earlier to the simpler problem of accounting for the biasing of the probabilities for the occurrence of the thoughts themselves, i.e., a biasing relative to the probabilities predicted by orthodox quantum theory. This latter problem is manageable: Weinberg [5] has devised a nonlinear quantum mechanics that is very similar to quantum theory, but that can produce probabilities that are biased, relative to the probabilities predicted by linear quantum mechanics. Gisin [6] has already pointed out that Weinberg's theory can lead to causal anomalies.

      According to the interpretation of quantum theory adopted here, the mechanical recording of the detection of the products of a radioactive decay generates a separation of the physical world into a collection of superposed "channels" or "branches": the physical world, as represented by the wave function of the universe, divides into a superposition of channels, one for each of the different possible recorded (but unobserved) results. Contrary to common sense the recorded but unobserved numbers remain in a state of superposed "potentia," to use the word of Heisenberg. Later, when the human observer looks at the device, the state of his brain will separate into a superposition of channels corresponding to the various alternative macroscopic possibilities, in the way described by von Neumann [9]. FInally, when thepsychological event of observation occurs, the state of the universe will be reduced by a projection onto those brain states that are singled out by the conscious experience of the observer [12].

      If the probabilities associated with the various alternative possibilities for the brain state are those given by orthodox quantum theory, then there can be no systematic positive bias of the kind reported: the probabilities associated with the alternative possible brain events will necessarily, according to the orthodox theory, as explained by von Neumann, agree with those that were determined earlier from the probabilities of the alternative possible detections of radioactive decays: there could be no biasing of those probabilities due to a subsequent willful intent of an observer. However, a generalization of Weinberg's nonlinear quantum mechanics allows the probabilities for the possible reductions of the state of the brain of the observer to be biased, relative to those predicted by orthodox quantum theory, by features of the state of the brain of the conscious observer. If such a feature were the activity of the brain that is associated with "intent," then the effect of the anomalous term in the Hamiltonian would be to shift the quantum probabilities corresponding to the various alternative possible conscious events toward the possibilities linked to his positive intent.

      We turn, therefore, to a description of Weinberg's theory, in the context of the problem of the shifting of the probabilities away from those predicted by orthodox quantum theory, and toward those defined by an "intent" represented by particular features of the state of the brain of the observer.

      Weinberg's nonlinear quantum theory is rooted in the fact that the quantum-mchanical equations of motion for a general quantum system are just the classical equations of motion for a very simple kind of classical system, namely a collection of classical simple harmonic oscillators. Thus a natural way to generalize quantum theory is to generalize this simple classical system.
      [ technicalities deleted... ]

      This example shows that the reported phenomena, although contrary to orthodox ideas about causality, can be model within a Weinberg-type of nonlinear quantum theory if the Hamiltonian functionh(psi,psi*) is allowed to be nonreal.

      If there are in nature nonlinear contributions of the kind indicated...then it seems likely that biological systems would develop in such a way as to exploit the biasing action. The biasing states, illustrated in the model by the state |chi>, could become tied, in the course of biological evolution, to biological desiderata, so that the statistical tendencies specified by the basic dynamics would be shifted in a way that would enhance the survival of the organism.

      The Weinberg nonlinearities were intially introduced in the present context because of Gisin's result, which showed that these nonlinearities could lead to causal anomalies of the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen (EPR) kind. However, the considerations given above indicate that those nonlinearities alone cannot produce anomalies of the kind reported in Ref. [8]: a nonreal h is apparently needed to obtain an effect of that kind.

      Because the nonlinear aspect is not obviously needed, one could try to revert to a linear theory. Yet it is important to recognize that in the modeling of acausal effects one has available the more general nonlinear framework.

      If the purported acausal phenomena is a real physical eitect and is explainable in terms of a nonreal h that arises solely in conjunction with nonlinear terms, as in the model given above, then orthodox quantum theory could become simply the linear approximation to a more adequate nonlinear theory.

      [1] A. Einstein, B. Podoisky, and N. Rosen, Phys. Rev. 47, 777 (1935).
      [2] J.S. Bell, Physics 1, 195 (1964).
      [3] H.P. Stapp, Phys. Rev. A 47, 847 (1993); 46, 6860 (1992); H.P. Stapp and D. Bedford, Synthese (to be published).
      [4] P. Eberhard, Nuovo Ciniento 46B, 392 (1978).
      [5] S. Weinberg, Ann. Phys.(N.Y.)194,336 (1989).
      [6] N. Gisin, Phys. Lett. A 143, 1 (1990).
      [7] R. Jahn, Y. Dobyns, and B. Dunne, J. Sci. Expl. 5, 205 (1991); B.J. Dunne and R.G. Jahn, ibid. 6, 311 (1992).
      [8] H. Schmidt, J. Parapsychol. 57, 351 (1993).
      [9] J. von Neumann, Mathematical Foundations of Quantum Mechanics (Princeton University Press, Princeton, 1955), Chap. VI.
      [10] W. Pauli, quoted in Mind, Matter, and Quantum Mechanics (Springer-Verlag, Berlin, 1993), Chap. 7.
      [11] H.P. Stapp, Am. J. Phys. 40, 1098 (1972).
      [12] H.P. Stapp, Mind, Matter, and Quantum Mechanics (Ref. [10]).

      http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/stapp.html
    • Jack Sarfatti Garrett: I don't know of any such predictions and tests for psi phenomena. We've entered the realm of philosophy and may not be able to resolve this for now.

      Jack: Start here:

      Research papers of interest:
      ...See More
      www.fourmilab.ch
      RPKP wishes to thankHelmut Schmidtfor his continuing advice and encouragement, as well as the loan of anoise-based true random generator. Thanks also toRoger Nelsonat thePrinceton Engineering Anomalies Research lab,Peter Moorein Theology and Religious Studies (UKC), Sir Robert Bunkum for guidance, s...
    • Jack Sarfatti On Jan 17, 2013, at 3:03 PM, Jack Sarfatti <sarfatti@pacbell.net> wrote:

      I respectfully disagree completely with you. A post-quantum theory for this exists. There are several alternative independently derived natural radical conservative extensions of orthodox quantum theory e.g. Stapp, Valentini, Cramer, myself, et-al that have entanglement signaling. There are only two possible interpretations of the evidence
      1) classical electromagnetic OR 2) quantum entanglement supplemented by non-unitary signal nonlocality. If 1) is false, then 2) is true. There is no other alternative if we accept the data as true. If u have a third rational physical alternative, what is it?

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Jan 17, 2013, at 1:25 PM, Garret Moddel wrote:

      Those examples are evidence for psi, which I have no argument with. In a number of studies my lab has also found robust evidence for psi and retrocausal effects.

      However, to conclude that these are due to quantum entanglement is speculative, and so far unsupported by the evidence. Psi shares characteristics with quantum phenomena and psi does influence quantum states (along with any other statistically fluctuating states). But no quantum theory of psi that I am aware of provides accurate predictions. Until there is a falsifiable (in the Popper sense) theory for psi that incorporates quantum entanglement I will remain skeptical of the connection between the two.

      That is the reason that I stated there is a similarity but no direct connection between psi and quantum entanglement.

      -Garret

      On Jan 14, 2013, at 1:27 PM, jack <sarfatti@pacbell.net> wrote:

      Sent from my iPad

      On Jan 14, 2013, at 11:46 AM, Garret Moddel <Moddel@Colorado.EDU> wrote:

      Chris & Jack-

      Garrett: My statement was based on the standard interpretation of quantum entanglement, in which correlation is maintained but there cannot be any information transferred between the distant particles.
      Jack: Right but the evidence clearly shows that no entanglement signal theorem is empirically wrong in my opinion. This is the debate.

      Garrett:I know there are alternative theories, but is there solid evidence of superluminal information transfer in QE? I haven't been following this discussions. It would be great to have evidence that my statement has been shown to be false, because that really would open a lot of doors.

      Jack: Theory along lines of Stapp, Weinberg, Josephson, myself, Cramer, Valentini, i.e. radical conservative extension of orthodox qm to include non-unitary nonlinear effects

      Evidence: presponse Libet, Radin, Bierman, Bem

      Puthoff & Targ SRI

      On Jan 12, 2013, at 7:53 PM, JACK SARFATTI <sarfatti@pacbell.net> wrote:

      Thanks.

      On Jan 12, 2013, at 6:35 PM, hris W wrote:

      Hey Dr. S,

      Here is a link to Garret Moddel's interview (I was incorrect about it being a talk). The transcript of the interview is on this page. If you search for ....

      Garrett: "There’s a similarity, but there’s no direct connection. For example, quantum entanglement is a phenomenon in which two particles at a distance are inter-related. So if you measure one particle, you affect the other particle, instantly, and as far away as you like."

      Jack: I think Moddel is mistaken. It's a direct connection in my opinion provided that electromagnetic communication (both near and far field) can be excluded. Entanglement with Valentini's signal nonlocality is the only remaining explanation assuming good data.

      Chris: You will find the context of the statement also at 4:11 in the mp3 recording. The statement is not directly related to Radin's research but to PSI. I'm assuming (I'm not an expert in these areas) that the underlying phenomenon is related. The following URL contains the podcast interview.

      http://www.skeptiko.com/garret-moddel-brings-psi-to-colorado/

      Additionally, in case you are interested, I have linked the papers that are related to the Grinberg-Zylberbaum experiment.

      Jack: Yes, Fred Alan Wolf & I I knew Jacobo Grinberg in Brazil in 1984. I think he was murdered in Mexico years ago.

      // 2005 Paper TL Richards et al...
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16398586

      // 2004 Paper Standish (TL Richards) et al...
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15165411

      // 2003 Paper by Jiri Wackerman (published in Neuroscience Letters)
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12493602

      Thanks!!!
      chris
      www.skeptiko.com
      Professor at University of Colorado's Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering guides students through experiments demonstr

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  4. Discussion with Ruth Elinor Kastner Physicist at University of Maryland and Menas Kafatos, Dean of School of Physical Science, Chapman University & MIT Physics Professor's book on me and my associates that got 2012 physics book of the year award. My name appears ~ 600 times in the Hippies Saved Physics book reviewed in NY TIMES, WALL STREET JOURNAL, NATURE, SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, PHYSICS TODAY, AMERICAN SCIENTIST ...
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    • Jack Sarfatti They do not require, it i.e. retrocausality is not necessary, it is sufficient. Invoking retrocausality does not contradict any orthodox quantum experiments. Retrocausality is a true Godel undecidable proposition within the too limited rules of the orthodox quantum theory game.
    • Destiny Matters Congratulations!!!
    • Gareth Lee Meredith And not to mention, Wheeler delayed choice experiment is experimental evidence for retrocausality.
    • Jack Sarfatti On Dec 20, 2012, at 11:01 PM, Ruth Elinor Kastner wrote:

      Jack, you'll need to say which argument you're talking about. If it's the claim in the abstract from the arxiv preprint I mentioned (http://arxiv.org/abs/1206.6224), yes, all the results
      are nic
      ely predicted by ordinary qm and do not require 2-state formalism as 'the only 'reasonable resolution' as claimed by Aharonov et al in that abstract. In fact the alleged 'contradictions' that they claim need 'resolution' are spurious; under a standard qm analysis, which I've already provided, there are no special problems or contradictions that need 'resolving' by recourse to a different formulation.

      Jack: As I said. Yakir & Co only have an argument of sufficiency of the retrocausal interpretation in which psi* is a post-selected advanced destiny influence and psi is the pre-selected retarded history influence colliding as it were in the intermediate weak measurement. Since orthodox quantum theory is degenerate in this regard, i.e. admits a meta-Hilbert space of Godel undecidable Bohmian "informal languages" or interpretations, e.g.

      1) Copenhagen epistemological

      2) Bohm ontological

      3) Parallel Worlds (Tegmark Level 3)

      4) Cramer Transactional

      5) London-Wigner consciousness reduction --> Penrose Orch OR

      etc.

      Only strong signal nonlocality in Antony Valentini's sense can settle the issue.

      Libet --> Radin --> Bierman --> Bem

      I claim is clear evidence for the breakdown of orthodox quantum theory in living matter.

      Quantum theory is only limiting case of a more general post-quantum theory as special relativity was for general relativity.

      Ruth: So they are taking something that is perfectly sensible under standard qm and making it seem strange and obscure to create an apparent need for their formulation. There are no special problems with these experimental phenomena under a standard qm analysis. It all boils down to steering of quantum systems (by way of weak measurements) into tilted error states more likely to give certain 'strong' outcomes. So of course the strong outcomes are more likely to have come from the weakly measured states which lean toward those outcomes. It's just the shoe factory analogy: If Alice is known to have a high rate of defective shoe production on Saturdays (because she partied too hard the night before), if Bob gets a Saturday shipment, he's going to find that more of those shoes are defective. That doesn't indicate that Bob's identification of a particular defective shoe forces that shoe to retroactively have been (probably) made on a Saturday the week before. It just means that it's more likely to have been made on a Saturday. This is all ordinary statistical inference,
      no different conceptually from my inferring that in the past you interacted with your computer because I got an email from you. My getting that email did not retroactively influence you to have done something in the past.

      Neither do any of the fancy experiments referred to recently in the popular press require a 'back from the future' explanation.

      Jack: They do not require, it i.e. retrocausality is not necessary, it is sufficient. Invoking retrocausality does not contradict any orthodox quantum experiments. Retrocausality is a true Godel undecidable proposition within the too limited rules of the orthodox quantum theory game.

      Ruth: Rather than the 'back from the future' explanation being more 'elegant' or 'simpler' as 2-state vector proponents claim, it is tendentious and misleading since it's based on taking results perfectly consistent with standard qm and trying to argue that they require something beyond standard qm. They don't. Remember the shoe factory.

      Now if someone gets reliable statistically significant deviation from the Born Rule, that's a completely different matter: in that case, both standard qm and the 2-state formulation fail.

      Jack: I think the history-destiny picture naturally generalizes to include signal nonlocality - that's what John Cramer claims in his back from the future experiment and in Chapter 16 of Frontiers of Propulsion Science.

      ________________________________________
    • Jack Sarfatti From: jack [sarfatti@pacbell.net]
      Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 1:16 AM
      To: Kafatos, Menas

      That's what I have been saying. However Ruth seems to think her argument refutes Yakir's It doesn't Difference in logic between a sufficient explanation and a
      ...See More
      phys.org
      Physicists of the group of Prof. Anton Zeilinger at the Institute for Quantum Optics and Quantum Information (IQOQI), the University of Vienna, and the Vienna Center for Quantum Science and Technology (VCQ) have, for the first time, demonstrated in an experiment that the decision whether two particl...
 
Back From The Future Post-Quantum Theory
  • Laurel Weiner likes this.
  • Jack Sarfatti I think Yakir only claims that real retrocausality is a sufficient consistent interpretation of orthodox quantum theory, but not a necessary condition. My claim, consistent with Antony Valentini's papers, is that the experimental presponse data from Libet -> Radin -> Bierman -> Bem is a violation of orthodox quantum theory's no-entanglement signaling "theorems". Therefore, that proves with a high degree of Baysean confidence in my opinion, that real retrocausality is a fact of nature and quantum theorists need to expand their boundaries if they are to remain intellectually honest.

    On Dec 20, 2012, at 4:32 PM, Ruth Elinor Kastner <rkastner@umd.edu> wrote:

    Ok Jack -- the only thing I question is holding up these experiments in the popular press as evidence of retrocausality -- they aren't.

    RK
    ________________________________________
    From: jack [sarfatti@pacbell.net]
    Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:25 PM
    To: Ruth Elinor Kastner

    Subject: Re: I missed this. You?

    Sent from my iPad

    On Dec 20, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Ruth Elinor Kastner wrote:

    The presponse data is a separate issue from what's going on in the experiments referred to by CL.

    Agreed

    The retrocausal phenomenon is moot in orthodox qm
    Yakir agrees with that
    The presponse data is a violation of it
    So orthodox qm is not interesting for retrocausality
    What Yakir shows is that there is no contradiction
    It's like lifting a degeneracy in the meta Hilbert space of parallel qm interpretations

    I don't rule out that humans might be able to get around QM statistics and that there may be other physics out there, but my point is just that
    _these experiments do not contain that new physics_. These experiments are perfectly consistent with standard QM without explicit retrocausality.
    Therefore, of course they are also consistent with TI as an interpretation of standard QM. Yes in TI there are advanced states but these are sub-empirical; i.e.
    their existence cannot be revealed/confirmed by experiment- -- at least not by these experiments.

    On the other hand, Valentini's work predicts deviations from standard QM (i.e. Born Rule).

    That's my point.

    Only if there is deviation from the Born Rule is there truly
    new quantum physics in this sense. In terms of the Transactional Interpretation, deviation from the Born Rule would mean that there might be some way to directly influence _which_ transaction is actualized from a set of possible ones.

    Cramer say that in ch 16
    I prove it using entangled Glauber states

    Best
    Ruth
    ________________________________________
    From: jack [sarfatti@pacbell.net]
    Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 5:59 PM
    To: Ruth Elinor Kastner

    Subject: Re: I missed this. You?

    Right I still have not had time to respond properly in depth
    But your critique noted
    Crucial test is presponse evidence u ignore
    Also Russ Targ's CIA RV SRI report
    John Cramer disagrees w you in ch 16 of exotic propulsion book
    I mean your not addressing issue that qm is limit of more general theory with entanglement signaling.

    Sent from my iPad

    On Dec 20, 2012, at 2:48 PM, Ruth Elinor Kastner wrote:

    I've seen a discussion elsewhere about these kinds of experiments. As soon as you detect a single particle (say Alice's), a one-particle Alice state is necessarily detected
    and actualized on Alice's side, even if nobody 'looked' at it (i.e. even if there is still epistemic uncertainty about what state was actualized) and that
    collapses the pair (both Alice's and Bob's particles) in that particular run into a particular state . Then the subsequent measurements you perform on Bob's particle
    will reflect the statistics of the state that was created via the detection of Alice's particle.

    In the experiments involving a superposition of the interferometer mirror in a 'which-slit' and 'both slits' configuration, detection of Alice's particle projects that combined system of Alice + Bob + IFM mirror into a particular state, and then detection of the mirror in a particular state further projects Bob's particle into a particular state corresponding to the mirror's detection, so of course Bob's particle is later detected with statistics reflecting those earlier detections.

    No explicit retrocausality is necessarily present in these kinds of experiments. The claims are usually overstated based on a conflation of any given individual run with the statistical analysis of sets of runs.

    RK
    ________________________________________
    From: jack [sarfatti@pacbell.net]
    Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 1:37 PM
    To: Levit, Creon (ARC-P)

    Subject: Re: I missed this. You?

    I know about this and I think kim already has it posted on Stardrive

    Sent from my iPad

    On Dec 20, 2012, at 10:26 AM, "Levit, Creon (ARC-P)" wrote:

    http://phys.org/news/2012-04-quantum-physics-mimics-spooky-action.html#nRlv
    phys.org
    Physicists of the group of Prof. Anton Zeilinger at the Institute for Quantum Op...See More