Jack SarfattiOne rather obvious idea to try, which I did have in mind back in 1973 is:

Given the Schrodinger quantum wave for a subluminal positive rest mass particle (i.e. Bohm be able) the group speed dE/dp is the speed of propagation of energy.

In contrast, the phase speed c^2/(dE/dp) is the superluminal speed of propagation of negentropy.

Therefore, two entangled systems Alice and Bob will exchange negentropy instantly in their common rest frame (neglecting complication of path-dependent gravity curvature in this approximation).

On Aug 28, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Tony Smith <F75M17H@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Now that I have had some time to look at your Wu Li first printing ideas, I think that your ideas can be defended as being prescient precursors to the ideas later expounded by Roger Penrose.

Here is a rough outline:

Wu Li Sarfatti: "… the degree of coherence (negentropy) … of the photon pair … is … greater than the sum of the separate negentropies of the individual photons …"

Penrose Corresponding Ideas:

photon state <===> tubulin state

negentropy <===> superposition separation

Wu Li Sarfatti: "… When separate parts … interact with each other… they … become correlated at the next higher level … the basic structuring principle of … hierarchical reality …. events which are "separate" at one level … are correlated at the next level up …"

Penrose Corresponding Ideas:

levels of correlation <===> coherence of subsets of tubulins among the 10^18 tubulins in the brain

Wu Li Sarfattti: "… each quantum jump is a space-like superluminal transfer of negentropy …"

Penrose Corresponding Ideas:

quantum jump <===> Orch OR orchestrated reduction of the quantum state (formation of thought)

transfer of negentropy <===> trigger of reduction of state by accumulation of critical amount of superposition separation = negentropy

Wu Li Sarfatti: "… Since a state is generally a pattern of information extended in space, it follows that a discrete change of state involves a faster-than-light switch of the pattern of information …".

Penrose Corresponding Ideas:

state pattern of information <===> pattern of tubulin states in coherent subset of 10^18 tubulins in brain

faster-than-light switch <===> Orch OR state reduction of subset of tubulins spread throughout brain (human brain size on order of 10 cm - Orch OR reduction effectively instantaneous)

Jack SarfattiIf the Alice and Bog are in relative motion, then use spacetime diagrams to plot the phase speed world lines in contrast to the group speed world lines.

Jack SarfattiIn more detail: PS If Alice and Bob are in relative motion then use space-time diagrams to plot the mean wave packet phase speed world lines and the mean wave packet group speed world lines.

The entangled quantum potential will be Q[A(x,t), B(x',t')] =/= Q[A(x,t)] + Q'[B(x',t')]

with A(x,t) connected with B(x',t') by the mean phase speed of A to B starting from (x,t) etc.

Jack SarfattiOn Aug 27, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Tony Smith <F75M17H@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Jack, I just got through Amazon a first edtion and first printing copy of Dancing Wu Li Masters and I see things like (at pages 311-313)

"… In 1975, Jack Sarfatti, a physicist, took the additional step of postulating not only that faster-than-light connections exist between space-like separated events, but also that they can be used in a controllable way to communicate … "superluminal transfer of negentropy without signals" … each quantum jump is a space-like superluminal transfer of negentropy …"non-local phase-lock over space-like intervals" …"

that are omitted from later printings and editions.

Do you have a complete index of everything that Zukav cut out from the first printing ?

In my view, the cutting of your ideas from Dancing Wu Li Masters (and refusal to produce any edition (other than the first printing) containing your ideas in an appendix like Feynman's appendix to the Challenger report) may be the most harmful bit of censorship ever in the history of physics based on the importance of the ideas the uniqueness of the ideas (nobody else really expounding them) and the effectiveness of the suppression.

Tony

Jack SarfattiOn Aug 31, 2013, at 10:24 AM, Larry Lemke <larrylemke@yahoo.com> wrote:

"This would seem to imply that information (negentropy) can propagate without the propagation of energy." I responded: The propagation of energy and information are coupled together, but with different paths.

speed of energy propagation is v < c (motion of the Bohm be-able)

speed of negentropy propagation is c^2/v > c

for positive rest mass

of course, this in itself does not imply signal non locality, which is stronger.

The basic picture is that both the Bohm quantum potential Q (BIT) and the Bohm be-able (IT hidden variable) are fundamentally ontological. The epistemic Born probability being a less fundamental artifact of "sub-quantum thermodynamic equilibrium" (A. Valentini) or lack of direct back-reaction of be-able on its pilot Q (Sarfatti based on Bohm & Hiley's Undivided Universe p. 30 et-al).