PS
Everyone, except perhaps Jim, agrees that a retarded EM OFFER wave from Alice falling on a hovering detector Bob very close to any future horizon of area-entropy A either black hole or de Sitter or Rindler will blue shift. According to Jim the return advanced CONFIRMATION wave to Alice will blue shift even more! Hence, a HANDSHAKE is impossible due to the enormous frequency mismatch in Jim's way of thinking.
i.e.
fret(Alice) ---> fret(Bob) ~ (A^1/4/Lp^1/2)fret(Alice)
According to Jim,
fadv(Alice) = (A^1/4/Lp^1/2)fret(Bob) = (A^1/2/Lp)fret(Alice)
fadv(Alice) >> fret(Alice)
violates TI
On Jun 6, 2013, at 12:52 PM, JackSarfatti <JackSarfatti@comcast.net> wrote:
Jim's scheme violates TI because Jim if he worked out his idea in detail would have advanced offer wave at a higher frequency than the retarded confirmation wave at the PAST absorber in the retrocausal case.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 6, 2013, at 12:35 PM, Ruth Kastner wrote:
"The only reason I replied was because of your claim that Jim's model 'violates Cramer's TI' -- to point out that your debate with Jim has no bearing on TI. Nor does my model obscure any important conceptual insights.
Best wishes"
RK
http://www.academia.edu/36632/Debate_on_cosmology_Sarfatti_vs_Woodward_Part_1
Jim also confuses the Hubble sphere where expansion speed is that of light with the cosmic horizons.
if you use static coordinates
gtt = 1 - r^2/A
1 + z = [gtt(receiver)/gtt(source)]^1/2
use r ~ A^1/2 - Lp in gtt(source) and r = 0 for gtt(receiver)
for advanced offer wave in the Cramer transaction
result is (first order Taylor series)
1 + z ~ (1/(Lp/A^1/2)^1/2) = (A^1/2/Lp)^1/2
---> infinity as Lp ---> 0
My argument in co-moving Friedmann coordinates below is consistent with the in static coordinates above.
As above
So below ;-)
Indeed Tamara Davis in her PhD says what I say about the change of distance to our past and future horizons It's obvious from her diagram (Fig 1.1)
We recede from our past particle horizon, we approach our future dark energy de Sitter horizon.
1) In a Cramer transaction a retarded offer wave to us from near our past horizon is redshifted.
An advanced confirmation wave from us to near our past particle horizon is blue shifted.
Our relative space is effectively expanding forward in time in this transaction with our past horizon.
2) In a Cramer transaction an advanced offer wave to use from our future horizon is redshifted.
A retarded confirmation wave from us to it is blue shifted.
Our relative space is effectively contracting forward in time in this transaction with our future horizon.
Therefore, it is effectively expanding backwards in time for a back from the future advanced wave to us.
Advanced Wheeler-Feynman Hawking black body radiation of peak energy hc/Lp is then redshifted down to hc/(LpA^1/2)^1/2 at our detectors.
From Stefan-Boltzmann T^4 law this gives energy density hc/Lp^2A, which happens to agree with the actual dark energy density accelerating out causal diamond observable patch of the multiverse.
A = area of our future horizon at intersection with our future light cone.
if you use static coordinates
gtt = 1 - r^2/A
1 + z = [gtt(receiver)/gtt(source)]^1/2
use r ~ A^1/2 - Lp in gtt(source) and r = 0 for gtt(receiver)
for advanced offer wave in the Cramer transaction
result is (first order Taylor series)
1 + z ~ (1/(Lp/A^1/2)^1/2) = (A^1/2/Lp)^1/2
---> infinity as Lp ---> 0
My argument in co-moving Friedmann coordinates below is consistent with the in static coordinates above.
As above
So below ;-)
Indeed Tamara Davis in her PhD says what I say about the change of distance to our past and future horizons It's obvious from her diagram (Fig 1.1)
We recede from our past particle horizon, we approach our future dark energy de Sitter horizon.
1) In a Cramer transaction a retarded offer wave to us from near our past horizon is redshifted.
An advanced confirmation wave from us to near our past particle horizon is blue shifted.
Our relative space is effectively expanding forward in time in this transaction with our past horizon.
2) In a Cramer transaction an advanced offer wave to use from our future horizon is redshifted.
A retarded confirmation wave from us to it is blue shifted.
Our relative space is effectively contracting forward in time in this transaction with our future horizon.
Therefore, it is effectively expanding backwards in time for a back from the future advanced wave to us.
Advanced Wheeler-Feynman Hawking black body radiation of peak energy hc/Lp is then redshifted down to hc/(LpA^1/2)^1/2 at our detectors.
From Stefan-Boltzmann T^4 law this gives energy density hc/Lp^2A, which happens to agree with the actual dark energy density accelerating out causal diamond observable patch of the multiverse.
A = area of our future horizon at intersection with our future light cone.
The co-moving distance from us to our future horizon decreases forward in time.
The co-moving distance from us to our past horizon increases forward in time.
Virtual electron-positron pairs "stuck" on our future horizon are properly accelerating unlike real co-moving charges with zero proper acceleration AWAY from us. Therefore, using Doppler analogy radiation from them to us is redshifted. The virtual pairs are elevated to real pairs by the very hot Unruh radiation they feel locally. This is all in relation to us distant observers according to Susskind's "horizon complementarity".
proper acceleration of the virtual electron positron pairs stuck on the horizon is
g(r) = -(c^2/2)gtt^-1/2dgtt/dr
in static LNIF coordinates ONLY
gtt = 1 - r^2/A
dgtt/dr = -2r/A
g(r) = +c^2(1 - r^2/A)^-1/2r/A
note that we are at r = 0.
IN CONTRAST, for comoving sources in usual FRW coordinates gt't' = 1 so g'(r) = 0.
For details see Wikipedia.
OK, here is a simple case - not same as Kalamidas mind you - that seems to be outside the rules of orthodox quantum theory.
Alice the receiver has an ordinary orthodox quantum bit with base states |0> & |1> for a given orientation of her apparatus which never changes in the experiment. Bob the sender has two distinguishable non-orthogonal Glauber coherent eigenstates |z> and |w> of the non-Hermitian observable boson destruction operator a, where z and w are complex numbers. Right at this point we have violated one of the axioms of orthodox quantum theory in a factual way since Glauber states are facts.
Suppose we have the entangled state
|A,B> = (1/2)^1/2[|0>|z> + |1>|w>]
then using the orthodox Born probability rule in density matrix formulation gives
p(0) = p(1) = (1/2)[1 + |<z|w>|^2]
p(0) + p(1) = 1 + |<z|w>|^2 > 1
the entanglement signal at Alice's receiver is |<z|w>|^2
violating conservation of Born's rule for probability - because the observable is not hermitian and actually a closer examination shows a non-unitary time evolution. This is a larger theory that reduces to orthodox quantum theory in the appropriate limit.
note
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherent_states
Now, we can squirm out of this by a-priori ad-hoc forcing of the non-universal normalization
|A,B>' = [1 + |<z|w>|^2]^-1/2|A,B>
giving
p'(0) = p'(1) = 1/2 with no signaling
Note, that Bob does not need to use that normalization at all because of Alice's <0|1> = 0.
That's why I use "non-universal" above.
However, it's not clear the Nature works this way without more testing.
On Jun 1, 2013, at 1:04 PM, Ghirardi Giancarlo <ghirardi@ictp.it> wrote:
Il giorno 01/giu/2013, alle ore 18:38, JACK SARFATTI <adastra1@me.com> ha scritto:
Ghirardi: I do not agree at all on this. The actual situation is that there has never been a clear cut indication that in Kalamidas serf-up something (probabilities, outcomes or whatever you want) actually changes something at left as a consequence of preparing one or the other state at right, so that it can be used to send faster than light signals. It is his duty and not ours to prove that the effect exist. I believe to have argued against its existence and I have also checked that for the most natural observables at left no difference occurs when you choose one or the other of the two initial states. The game is back to Kalamidas. And, sincerely, I am a little bit disturbed by all this enormous mess and many inadequate and unjustified statements that have been put forward during the debate. I am not keen to follow the matter any more.
On Jun 1, 2013, at 1:54 PM, Suda Martin <Martin.Suda.fl@ait.ac.at> wrote:
Dear all,
thanks to everybody for emails, papers, contributions to discussion and comments. I enjoyed very much the highly interesting dialogues. I can fully agree to the arguments of CG and GG, of course.
Only a comment with respect to the question of the approximation:
As regards the approximation done in the calculation of DK, I would like to point out again - and I sent a pdf called Interf_BS_50_50_Suda.pdf two days ago - that because of such an approach the normalization of the output wave function behind the 50/50 BS has been changed to (1+2|alpha|^2+|alpha|^4), see Eq.(7), instead of being exactly 1. The probabilities for the potential "interference part" (see Eq.(6)) are (|p_10|^2+|p_01|^2)/4=2|alpha|^2 and the other parts give all together 2(|q_10|^2+|q_01|^2)/4=1+|alpha|^4. One keeps therefore precisely the modified normalization of Eq.(7).
One can clearly see that the "interference part" and the other parts are outcomes from an incorrect normalization.
Nice regards,
Martin
Begin forwarded message:
From: CHRISTOPHER GERRY <CHRISTOPHER.GERRY@lehman.cuny.edu>
Subject: Re: The Kalamidas affair
Date: June 1, 2013 9:46:37 AM PDT
To: nick herbert <quanta@cruzio.com>
Cc: Ghirardi Giancarlo <ghirardi@ictp.it>, Demetrios Kalamidas <dakalamidas@sci.ccny.cuny.edu>, John Howell <howell@pas.rochester.edu>, Suda Martin <martin.suda.fl@ait.ac.at>, Ruth Kastner <rekastner@hotmail.com>, JACK SARFATTI <adastra1@me.com>, "Romano rromano@iastate.edu [MATH]" <rromano@iastate.edu>
Nick and everyone,
The specific failings of the Kalamidas proposal have, in fact, been pointed out in the papers you mentioned and elsewhere. I don't understand why anyone continues to say otherwise. To say that they have not been addressed does not make it so, and comes off merely an act of denial. This has been an interesting episode, but I think it's time to stop beating a dead horse. Chris
On Jun 1, 2013, at 9:13 AM, nick herbert <quanta@cruzio.com> wrote:
Kalamidas fans--
NH: I believe that everyone is in agreement that general considerations prove that the Kalamidas proposal must fail.
JS: Yes
In both Ghirardi's and Gerry's papers, they emphasize these general considerations and decline to engage in the specifics of Kalamidas's calculations. Whether one wishes to engage the specifics or not is a matter of taste. But Kalamidas is asking us to engage in specifics. As he puts it: Since you know that I am wrong, it should be "easy pickins" to
point out exactly where I am mistaken.
Gerry comes closest to meeting Kalamidas's challenge to move out of the safety of generalities and deal with specifics.
In the conclusion of Gerry's paper he states "Clearly, if the exact calculation shows no interference, but the approximate calculation does, there is something wrong with the approximate calculation. Looking at Eq 6, one notes that while some terms to order rA have been kept in going from 6a to 6c, the terms labeled "vanishing" in Eq 6b are also of this order and have been discarded. Thus the approximate calculation in {1} is inconsistent and wrong."
Gerry engages in specifics. He is meeting Kalamidas on his own terms. But he neglects to specify exactly which terms of order rA Kalamidas has mistakenly labeled as "vanishing". When Gerry displays these wrongly-neglected terms (perhaps in an informal note), he would have definitively "slain the beast in his own lair" and we can all get on with the non-Kalamidas aspects of our lives.
JS: Agreed, thanks Nick :-)
Nick
PS: There is still the fascinating Martin Suda Paradox which was discovered in the context of the Kalamidas refutation, but that is a separate issue altogether.
JS: What is that Nick? Please give details.
Begin forwarded message:
From: JACK SARFATTI <adastra1@me.com>
Subject: [ExoticPhysics] Fwd: The Kalamidas affair
Date: June 1, 2013 7:45:42 AM PDT
To: Exotic Physics <exoticphysics@mail.softcafe.net>
Reply-To: Jack Sarfatti's Workshop in Advanced Physics <exoticphysics@mail.softcafe.net>
Sent from my iPad
Subject: Re: The Kalamidas affair
yes I agree with this
any attempt at signaling within axioms of orthodox quantum theory will fail e.g. Adrian Kent's papers
however, antony valentini, myself and others (Stapp, Weinberg, Josephson) have all independently proposed several extensions giving a more general non-orthodox post quantum theory containing orthodox quantum theory as a limiting case. In particular, the non-hermitian boson destruction operator is a macroscopic observable with Glauber coherent eigenstates that are non-orthogonal distinguishable violating orthodox quantum theory. Furthermore, they obey a non-unitary dynamics given by the c-number landau-ginzburg equation for spontaneous broken symmetry ground/vacuum state emergent local order parameters. These order parameters entangle with others and also with orthodox qubits, so we have a new larger theory here analogous to general relativity in relation to special relativity.
Furthermore, there is no violation with the group structure of relativity because intervals are frame invariant and what matters is the interval between actual irreversible detections. What is violated is the retarded casuality axiom appended to relativity that is adhoc like Euclid's fifth axiom. Again the analogy to non-Euclidean geometry is appropriate.
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 1, 2013, at 6:40 AM, CHRISTOPHER GERRY <CHRISTOPHER.GERRY@lehman.cuny.edu> wrote:
Everyone,
I'm in total agreement with Prof. Ghirardi's assessment. The beam splitter transformations are not the essential point here, as even if the are done correctly, the claimed effect goes away. We addressed the beam splitter issue in our comment to demonstrate that sloppy calculations in general are contained in the Kalamidas paper. We then assumed that the one case of his t and r of parameters that would satisfy the reciprocity relations actually held, thus ensuring that his transformations did not violate unitarity (for that one case!) and from there showed via an exact calculation that the effect disappears. As I said, it will disappear even with totally correct, unitary beam splitter transformations, just as stated by Prof. Ghirardi. Chris
Christopher C. Gerry
Professor of Physics
Lehman College
The City University of New York
718-960-8444
christopher.gerry@lehman.cuny.edu
---- Original message ----
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 14:57:07 +0200
From: Ghirardi Giancarlo <ghirardi@ictp.it> Subject: The Kalamidas affair To: CHRISTOPHER GERRY <christopher.gerry@lehman.cuny.edu>, Demetrios Kalamidas <dakalamidas@sci.ccny.cuny.edu>, John Howell <howell@pas.rochester.edu>, nick herbert <quanta@cruzio.com>, Suda Martin <martin.suda.fl@ait.ac.at>, Ruth Kastner <rekastner@hotmail.com>, JACK SARFATTI <adastra1@me.com>, "Romano rromano@iastate.edu [MATH]" <rromano@iastate.edu>
Dear all,
attached herewith you will find a letter (even though it looks like a paper for technical reasons) that I have decided to forward to you to make clear the conceptual status of the situation. I hope of having been clear and I wait for comments.
With my best regards
GianCarlo
________________
remarks.pdf (83k bytes)
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