Text Size
Facebook Twitter More...

On Sep 20, 2010, at 10:59 AM, nick herbert wrote:

On Sep 20, 2010, at 2:13 AM, Hrvoje Nikolic wrote:

Hi Nick, Yu, and Danko!

I agreed with the first objection by Nick in his first
e-mail, but I would like to make some comments on these
last comments by Nick.

One of the oddest facts about experiments of this kind is that the mere possibility of gaining "which-path" information
will prevent interference from occurring. You do not have to actually carry out the "which-path" observation.

But in order to ACHIEVE the possibility of gaining "which-path" information, you MUST do something PHYSICAL. Namely, you need to put or remove some piece of experimental equipment. It is THIS PHYSICAL
change that makes the physical system different.

There are two choices involved in making a quantum measurement--Sometimes called the Heisenberg choice and the Dirac choice. The Heisenberg choice is the PHYSICAL choice (made by man or nature) to deploy a macroscopic object in a particular way. It is called the Heisenberg choice because deploying an object in a particular way (to select out which path info) completely precludes deploying it in a complementary way (to select out which interference sub-class info). The Dirac choice is the irreversible quantum jump that occurs somewhere in the apparatus and brings the experiment to a close. This choice is considered by most physicists to be utterly random--an act of God, and since Dirac was the closest thing to diety on this planet, his name is attached to this choice.

I agree with Nick on this particular issue above.

Signal nonlocality violation of quantum theory means that information encoded by a sequence of Heisenberg choices on a sequence of pulsed ensembles of pair correlated systems from one end (the sender) will be displayed faithfully, without significant random noise at the other (receiver end) without the need of a correlation analysis to unlock the message. If you want to think of collapse, then the combined Heisenberg-Dirac choices of which eigenstate to output would not be uncontrollable as Bohr posited. In that case one could communicate with entanglement using only one pair at a time rather than a sequence of pulsed ensembles of N >> 1 pairs. For example, "Uri Geller" could go to Monte Carlo and play dice and win every time - a clear example of the idea.

Henry Stapp summarizes the gist of quantum mechanics thus: "things that could have occurred but didn't, influence the things that do occur."


But something HAS occured here. You have put or removed a piece of experimental equipment.
Something has indeed happened here. But something also has not happened. Nature has not made the Dirac choice. So the value that might have been displayed does not yet exist. Tho we may have deployed the which-path apparatus, there is no one pre-existing which-path value. In fact, at any time before a Dirac choice occurs (on the part of the entangled photon) we can change our mind and deploy another PHYSICAL APPARATUS that selects interfering subsets--a choice which will show that the interfering photons took both paths.

e.g. Marlan Scully's "quantum eraser"

It is almost as tho you don't have to act to change a quantum system--the MERE THREAT OF ACTING can do so.

It depends on what do you mean by "quantum system". If the pieces of experimental equipment count as parts of the quantum system,
then you DO NEED to change the quantum system.

Agreed, the Heisenberg choice (implied threat) must involve a physical act. It cannot just occur in the mind.


The second fact about this threat is that it makes no difference how it would be carried out--using machines or conscious awareness--
any way of recording that knowledge is as good as any other for carrying out this threat. Which of course need never be carried out.
It seems to me that there is some way of formulating this insight better--to say that in this particular situation, the mere possibility of
recording "which path information" REGARDLESS OF HOW THAT RECORDING IS PERFORMED can be construed to mean that quantum mechanics
itself gives consciousness no special role.

It is well known that machines can influence the wave function.
(That's why the pieces of experimental equipment do what they do,
as I repeated above.) In principle, the brain can influence the wave function too. (In fact, in
I have argued that this implies that nonlocal entanglement can,
in principle, be used for a sort of superluminal communication.)
However, I have no idea how conscious awareness itself,
influence the wave function.

Thanks for the reference. I have been studying alleged FTL quantum communication for 40 years and have devised dozen of schemes for using entanglement to accomplish this.***

Surprise. I think I'm back on your side.
I will keep playing with these concepts till they get clearer.

Do my comments help?

Best regards,
Hrvoje Nikolic

***All indisputably refuted, of course. If your proposal is more than some facile attribution of quantum non-locality to biological systems--IE, if your proposal is as definite as a Heisenberg choice,
I would love to have a try at refuting it.

Easy. So the claim is that e.g. LHC & other BIG PHYSICS experimental claims can be trusted and the one's below are all fraudulent and should be rejected as pseudo-physics whilst string theory is real physics for example? Let's be clear, isn't that the underlying text?

Dr. Harold E. Puthoff (Remote Viewing) From the Secret Life of ...
Dr. Harold E. Puthoff at The Arlington Institute Speaks of the ... The Early Days at SRI CIA-Initiated Remote Viewing Program at Stanford Research Institute ...
www.ebdir.net/enlighten/puthoff.html - Cached
CIA-Initiated Remote Viewing At Stanford Research Institute ... - 4 visits - Jul 9
by HE Puthoff - Cited by 4 - Related articles
As a result of the material being generated by both SRI and CIA remote viewers, .... [21] H. E. Puthoff, "ARV (Associational Remote Viewing) Applications," ...
www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/CIA-InitiatedRV.html - Cached - Similar
SRI International - Remote Viewing
In the 1970s and 1980s SRI was contracted by a U.S. government agency to ... of the Art inRemote Viewing Studies," Proceedings of the IEEE, Targ, Puthoff, ...
www.sri.com/about/remoteview.html - Cached - Similar
Remoteviewed.com - Hal Puthoff - Remote-Viewed
Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America's Psychic Spies: Chapter on Puthoff'sbackground, Pages 83-97; Puthoff joins SRI in 1969, p. ...
www.remoteviewed.com/remote_viewing_halputhoff.htm - Cached - Similar

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by A ANTICIPATORY - Related articles
Dick J. Bierman and H. Steven Scholte ..... Bierman, D. J. & Radin, D. I. (1997) . Anomalous anticipatory response on randomized future conditions. ...
www.quantumconsciousness.org/pdfs/presentiment.pdf - Similar
Time Flies (Backwards?) - Quantum Consciousness
To investigate these possibilities, Dean Radin and Dick Bierman have performed a number of experiments of emotional response in human subjects. ...
www.quantumconsciousness.org/views/TimeFlies.html - Cached - Similar
Dick Bierman - dr. D.J. (Dick) Bierman - University of Amsterdam - 4 visits - Apr 23
This is the homepage of Dick J Bierman at the University of Amsterdam.
home.medewerker.uva.nl/d.j.bierman/ - Cached - Similar
Toward a Science of Consciousness 3: Conscious and Anomalous ...
by DJ Bierman - Cited by 16 - Related articles
Dick J. Bierman and Dean Radin. Two previous experiments have been reported .....Bierman, D. J., and D. I. Radin. 1997. Anomalous Anticipatory Response on ...
cognet.mit.edu/posters/TUCSON3/BiermanRadin.html - Cached - Similar
Toward a science of consciousness III: the third Tucson ... - Google Books Result
Stuart R. Hameroff, Alfred W. Kaszniak, David John Chalmers - 1999 - Psychology - 504 pages
Dick J. Bierman and Dean Radin Two previous experiments have been reported ... classical explanations for presponse but concluded that these do not apply. ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by DJ BIERMAN - Cited by 79 - Related articles
m0134.fmg.uva.nl/publications/1997/anticip_pms97.pdf - Similar
Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Lab - Wikipedia, the free ...
In these experiments, subjects attempted to mentally alter the distribution of the random ....a b c "Princeton's PEAR Laboratory to Close". Princeton.edu. ...
Research - Closing of the laboratory - Staff - Spin-offs
en.wikipedia.org/.../Princeton_Engineering_Anomalies_Research_Lab - Cached - Similar
PEAR - Publications - Princeton University
by RG Jahn - Cited by 3 - Related articles
For further information, contact the PEAR laboratory at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..) ... A Linear PendulumExperiment: Effects of Operator Intention on Damping Rate ...
www.princeton.edu/~pear/publications.html - Cached - Similar
PEAR - Research Activities - Princeton University
The most substantial portion of the PEAR experimental program examines anomalies ... Over the laboratory's 27-year history, thousands of such experiments, ...
www.princeton.edu/~pear/human_machine.html - Cached - Similar
Show more results from www.princeton.edu
Princeton [PEAR] Remote-Viewing Experiments -- A Critique
by GP Hansen - 1992 - Cited by 13 - Related articles
The PEAR remote-viewing experiments depart from commonly accepted criteria for ....Princeton, NJ: Engineering Anomalies Research Laboratory, School of ...
www.tricksterbook.com/ArticlesOnline/PEARCritique.htm - Cached - Similar
The Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) - The ...
Feb 23, 2009 ... The PEAR lab shut down in February 2007 to a yawning scientific ... The subjects in the PEAR experiments tried to use their minds to produce ...
www.skepdic.com/pear.html - Cached - Similar
Princeton's PEAR Study
Mar 26, 2007 ... The studies and results of the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) laboratory have been a major stimulus and source of ...
www.energy-medicine.info/pear-study.html - Cached - Similar
Princeton's PEAR lab closing
16 posts - 1 author - Last post: Feb 11
Princeton's PEAR lab closing Scepticism & Debunking discussion. ... No matter the results, as long as the experiments done over the years ...
www.physicsforums.com › ... › Scepticism & Debunking - Cached - Similar
REG Design
PEAR REG We begin with the PEAR type REG, which is one of the devices developed for ...research at the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) laboratory. ... The original "benchmark" experiment used a commercial random source ...
noosphere.princeton.edu/reg.html - Cached - Similar
Psyleron - Introduction to the PEAR Lab
The Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) Lab was founded in 1979 by Robert G. ... All the experiments at the lab were conducted using volunteers, ...
www.psyleron.com/pearIntro.aspx - Cached - Similar
Global Consciousness Project -- consciousness, group consciousness ...
Scientific research network studying global consciousness: Description, Specifications, Data Access, Results.
Hatching an egg - Daily Movies - Data Access - FAQ
noosphere.princeton.edu/ - Cached - Similar
Global Consciousness Project Home Page
The Global Consciousness Project (GCP) is an international effort involving researchers from several institutions and countries, designed to explore whether ...
noosphere.princeton.edu/intro_bottom.html - Cached - Similar
Show more results from noosphere.princeton.edu
Global Consciousness Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Global Consciousness Project (GCP, also called the EGG Project) is a parapsychology experiment begun in 1998, described as an attempt to detect ...
Background - Research - Criticism - See also
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Consciousness_Project - Cached - Similar
Global Consciousness Project Dot
The Global Consciousness Project collects random numbers from around the world and are downloaded once a minute and subjected to sophisticated data analyses ...
gcpdot.com/ - Cached - Similar
Videos for global consciousness project

Dean Radin: The Global Consciousness Project
10 min - Feb 15, 2008
Uploaded by globaloneness

Global Consciousness Project(GCP)
3 min - Jul 28, 2008
Uploaded by rdnelson
Global Consciousness Project -Trans-Humanity Awakening To Reality ...
Jan 23, 2009 ... The Global Consciousness Project (GCP) was created in 1998 by a small team of researchers working in boundary areas of physics and ...
www.nowpublic.com/.../global-consciousness-project-trans-humanity- awakening-reality -Cached - Similar
91. Global Consciousness Project Welcomes Collaboration With ...
Jan 16, 2010 ... When it comes to claims of a global consciousness linking us all to tragedies like the earthquake in Haiti, or the terrorist attacks of 9/11 ...
www.skeptiko.com/91-global-consciousness-project-welcomes-collaboration- with-skeptics/- Cached - Similar
Dashboard Widgets - Global Conscious.com
This real-time widget pulls data from the Global Consciousness Project and performs statistics on the data to produce an indicator for the resonance and ...
www.globalconscious.com/dashboard/ - Cached - Similar
View - redOrbit
Sep 17, 2010 ... Loading... Mars500 Video Diary 6. What Can The Tuatara Tell Us About False Teeth ? Scientists Closer to Re-Growing Spines ...
www.redorbit.com/news/display/ - Cached - Similar
Global Consciousness Project
The Global Consciousness Project, also called the EGG Project, ... A project in Princeton University called Global Consciousness Project is created to study ...
www.experiencefestival.com/global_consciousness_project - Cached - Similar

Category: MyBlog

Categories ...

't Hooft 100 Year Star Ship Abner Shimony accelerometers action-reaction principle Aephraim Sternberg Alan Turing Albert Einstein Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer American Institute of Physics Andrija Puharich Anthony Valentin Anton Zeilinger Antony Valentini anyon Apple Computer Artificial Intelligence Asher Peres Back From The Future Basil Hiley Bell's theorem Ben Affleck Ben Libet Bernard Carr Bill Clinton black body radiation Black Hole black hole firewall black hole information paradox black holes Bohm brain waves Brian Josephson Broadwell Cambridge University Carnot Heat Engine Central Intelligence Agency CIA Clive Prince closed time like curves coherent quantum state Consciousness conservation laws Cosmic Landscape Cosmological Constant cosmology CTC cyber-bullying Dancing Wu Li Masters Dark Energy Dark Matter DARPA Daryl Bem David Bohm David Deutsch David Gross David Kaiser David Neyland David Tong de Sitter horizon Dean Radin Deepak Chopra delayed choice Demetrios A. Kalamidas Demetrios Kalamidas Dennis Sciama Destiny Matrix Dick Bierman Doppler radars E8 group Einstein's curved spacetime gravity Einstein's happiest thought electromagnetism Eli Cartan EMP Nuclear Attack entanglement signals ER=EPR Eric Davis Ernst Mach ET Eternal Chaotic Inflation evaporating black holes Facebook Faster-Than-Light Signals? fictitious force firewall paradox flying saucers FQXi Frank Tipler Frank Wilczek Fred Alan Wolf Free Will G.'t Hooft Garrett Moddel Gary Zukav gauge theory general relativity Geometrodynamics Gerard 't Hooft Giancarlo Ghirardi God Goldstone theorem gravimagnetism gravity Gravity - the movie gravity gradiometers gravity tetrads Gravity Waves Gregory Corso gyroscopes hacking quantum cryptographs Hagen Kleinert Hal Puthoff Hawking radiation Heisenberg Henry Stapp Herbert Gold Higgs boson Higgs field hologram universe Horizon How the Hippies Saved Physics I.J. Good ICBMs Igor Novikov inertial forces inertial navigation Inquisition Internet Iphone Iran Isaac Newton Israel Jack Sarfatti Jacques Vallee James F. Woodward James Woodward JASON Dept of Defense Jeffrey Bub Jesse Ventura Jim Woodward John Archibald Wheeler John Baez John Cramer John S. Bell Ken Peacock Kip Thorne Kornel Lanczos La Boheme Laputa Large Hadron Collider Lenny Susskind Leonard Susskind Levi-Civita connection LHC CERN libel Louis de Broglie Lubos Motl LUX Lynn Picknett M-Theory Mach's Principle Mae Jemison Making Starships and Star Gates Martin Rees Mathematical Mind MATRIX Matter-AntiMatter Asymmetry Max Tegmark Menas Kafatos Michael Persinger Michael Towler microtubules Milky way MIT MOSSAD multiverse NASA Nick Bostrum Nick Herbert Nobel Prize nonlocality Obama organized-stalking Origin of Inertia P. A. M. Dirac P.K.Dick P.W. Anderson Paranormal parapsychology Paul Werbos Perimeter Institute Petraeus Physical Review Letters Physics Today Post-Quantum Physics pre-Big Bang precognition presponse PSI WARS Psychic Repression qualia Quantum Chromodynamics quantum computers quantum entanglement quantum field theory quantum gravity Quantum Information Theory Quantum Theory RAF Spitfires Ray Chiao Red Chinese Remote Viewing retrocausality Reviews of Modern Physics Richard Feynman Richard P. Feynman Rindler effect Robert Anton Wilson Robert Bigelow Roger Penrose rotating black holes Roy Glauber Rupert Sheldrake Russell Targ Ruth Elinor Kastner S-Matrix Sagnac effect Sam Ting Sanford Underground Research Facility Sarfatti Lectures in Physics Scientific American Second Law of Thermodynamics Seth Lloyd signal nonlocality Skinwalker Ranch social networks space drive space-time crystal SPECTRA - UFO COMPUTER spontaneous broken symmetry SRI Remote Viewing Experiments Stanford Physics Stanford Research Institute Star Gate Star Ship Star Trek Q Stargate Starship Stephen Hawking Steven Weinberg stretched membrane string theory strong force gluons Stuart Hameroff superconducting meta-material supersymmetry symmetries telepathy Templeton The Guardian Thought Police time crystal time travel topological computers Topological Computing torsion UFO Unitarity unitary S-Matrix false? Unruh effect Uri Geller VALIS virtual particle Virtual Reality Warp Drive weak force Wheeler-Feynman WIMP WMAP WMD world crystal lattice wormhole Yakir Aharonov Yuri Milner