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On Nov 6, 2011, at 2:02 PM, francis wrote:

I don’t think this is a violation of the 2nd  law. I think the material naturally organizes into the mechanical portion[Casimir tapestry] of an HUP trap only requiring pressurized hydrogen, carefully controlled heating and an agitator to rectify the chaotic motion of gas into a discount of the disassociation threshold. This sidesteps the mechanical and spatial limitations of a maxwellian demon and becomes instead just an engineering challenge to trigger disassociation at a maximum discount. I think Rossi powder runs away and melts geometry when threshold is even slightly less than energy released upon hydrogen association and his reactor is currently limited by a need to balance a steady and heavy heat extraction against this self destructive tendency of the geometry.  My posit is that using changes in suppression value/Casimir geometry and controlling the bond state of gas atoms near the disassociation threshold you can create an endless chemical reaction/oscillation between h1><h2.  Jan Naudts proposed the hydrino was relativisitic in 2005 and Mill’s recently defined his hydrino as a “fractional Rydberg”  so perhaps I should be saying an endless reaction between h1/x><h2/x  where the motion of h2 relative to changing geometry drives the h2 to disassociate with less energy supplied externally than is released internally thanks to the HUP contribution to motion.



The "hydrino" idea is suspect although J. P. Vigier had a similar idea.

Three-particle clusters and the cold-fusion problem - Elsevier
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I don't think it's a violation of the 2nd law either.
The second law has some counter-intuitive consequences especially when quantum effects are added to it.
For example a hot negative spin quantum temperature coupled to a cold positive temperature reversible Carnot engine has no waste heat. Indeed, it's over unity efficient - not violating 2nd law at all.

Second, Maxwell Relations are only for reversible closed exact differential forms in theéodory approach to thermodynamics.  Closed non-exact forms violate the Maxwell-Relations analogous to transverse polarized radiation in electrodynamics - here they correspond to irreversible Arrow of Time processes.

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From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. [mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.] On Behalf Of JACK SARFATTI
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 2:46 PM
To: Kim Burrafato
Cc: Adam Crowl; Brian Josephson; Creon Levit; Nick Herbert; Saul-Paul Sirag; David Kaiser; Sharon Weinberger; This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.; JonathanPost; GerryPelligrini; James N. Benford; George Knapp; Daniel Sheehan; Lawrence G. (ARC-RD) Lemke; Simon Daniel; Hal Puthoff; Professor M; Ruth Elinor Kastner; Dave Williams; Paul Murad; This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. woodward; Paul Zielinski; Bruce Maccabee; Waldyr A. Rodrigues Jr.; Carlos Castro; Tony Smith
Subject: [Starfleet Command] Re: MSNBC-Interesting Coverage of Rossi Cold Fusion Breakthrough

Ask Gerry Pelligrini and Dan Sheehan to look into this. They are questioning the classical Second Law of Thermodynamics in this area. I know that's taboo like signal nonlocality (e.g. see the papers by Adrian Kent at Cavendish Lab, Cambridge).

Pelligrini has Navy Lab data he claims violates the Maxwell Relations


in terms of Cartan forms, this corresponds to an exact form.

i.e. A = df

dA = d^2f = 0

on the other hand we can have closed dA = 0 non-exact forms A =/= df (non vanishing curl - transverse degrees of freedom) for non-trivial topology (corresponding to irreversibility).Élie_Cartan

This is related to gauge invariance in field theory

A gauge transformation defines an equivalence class (gauge orbit)

A ---> A' = A + df

A is a 1-form

f = 0-form

A gauge orbit equivalence class is the set of all f (same boundary conditions) - The set of distinct equivalence classes (orbits) {A'} is formally the quotient set of  closed 1-forms/exact 1-forms

The equivalence classes are non-overlapping.

On Nov 6, 2011, at 11:11 AM, Kim Burrafato wrote:

Combined with the new thermoelectric generator technology coming on line, smaller scale units might be able to heat and power a home, and that would be pretty significant, IMO, particularly in primitive third world regions. Scaling up to nuclear and fossil fuel commercial levels of power generation might not ever be feasible, IF the reaction efficiency isn't greatly improved. Just more reason why it's so important that the theory of what's actually going on be much better understood than it currently is.  If the efficiency of the LEN reaction increased enough, we could see these things powering transportation vehicles, which would really be cool!

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 5, 2011, at 16:26, Adam <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> wrote:

To effectively replace coal-fired systems the e-Cat heating elements need to operate at 1600 K or so. I don't see that kind of performance yet - and I would like to.

Sent from my iPad

On 04/11/2011, at 8:32 PM, Brian Josephson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> wrote:

--On 4 November 2011 21:19:26 +1000 Adam <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> wrote:

Can't run a steam turbine,

In many of the tests it evaporated the water.  I assume the buyer can tack a turbine on the end if he wants to.  Also as I recall the reactor is at a considerably higher temperature.  Costs are said to compare very favourably with other power sources, I'm afraid I don't have the details to hand but you should be able to find them at  It is particularly useful in applications where heat or hot water is the aim of course.


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