From Brian's paper:

*"Mathematical precision*

One important issue is how mathematical precision emerges from a system

that is initially very imprecise. We can usefully consider in this connection

Euclidean geometry, a mathematically precise system that emerged through

the consideration of properties of the world that were not known with any

great precision. Geometry, like any mathematical enterprise, is a symbolic

activity that does not depend in any essential way on interaction with

the world. It was, nevertheless, inspired by knowledge of real point-like

objects and approximate straight lines. By retreating into symbolism one

escapes inconvenient facts about the world and is able to create a system

that has a certain resemblance to the world even though there is no exact

correspondence. The Euclidean plane, is in essence, a fantasy that one can

address through symbols even though the real world does not correspond

exactly to it. However, in this case the correspondences between the

Euclidean world and the real world are sufficiently close that Euclidean

geometry is of value in the real world, but this is something that has to be

discovered through observation rather than taken for granted.

Generation of space and physical universes

In our ordinary world, Euclidean geometry is simply a system that provides

a good model for phenomena in space, using specialised techniques to

connect the model with the reality. From the perspective of our primordial

community, it conversely provides a model for forming a universe-system

(more generally, physical laws provide a basis for forming the corresponding

physical reality)."

One important issue is how mathematical precision emerges from a system

that is initially very imprecise. We can usefully consider in this connection

Euclidean geometry, a mathematically precise system that emerged through

the consideration of properties of the world that were not known with any

great precision. Geometry, like any mathematical enterprise, is a symbolic

activity that does not depend in any essential way on interaction with

the world. It was, nevertheless, inspired by knowledge of real point-like

objects and approximate straight lines. By retreating into symbolism one

escapes inconvenient facts about the world and is able to create a system

that has a certain resemblance to the world even though there is no exact

correspondence. The Euclidean plane, is in essence, a fantasy that one can

address through symbols even though the real world does not correspond

exactly to it. However, in this case the correspondences between the

Euclidean world and the real world are sufficiently close that Euclidean

geometry is of value in the real world, but this is something that has to be

discovered through observation rather than taken for granted.

Generation of space and physical universes

In our ordinary world, Euclidean geometry is simply a system that provides

a good model for phenomena in space, using specialised techniques to

connect the model with the reality. From the perspective of our primordial

community, it conversely provides a model for forming a universe-system

(more generally, physical laws provide a basis for forming the corresponding

physical reality)."

What is the "primordial community" some sort of intrinsic mental field, like a cosmic scale Bohm quantum potential perhaps?

In my retro-causal hologram variation on the theme of 't Hooft and Susskind, the hologram screen consists of both our future and past cosmological horizons in the precise sense of Tamara Davis's PhD (online).

T. Davis Fig 1.1c

As suggested by Seth Lloyd the black hole horizon is a computer with channel capacity of A/4Lp^2 BITS. I am not clear if Seth means C-BITS or Q-BITS. I will assume he means Q-BITS.

We are outside black holes, but we are inside both of our cosmic horizons. Our future horizon is the past light cone of our proper timelike infinity. Our past horizon is the future light cone of the moment of inflation from unstable false vacuum sans gravity to metastable vacuum with emergent IR gravity. The area of our future horizon saturates (middle thin solid line below)

Now, do the emergent horizons contain Brian's "units"? Q-BITs?

Only our future dS horizon's asymptote gives the right number for the dark energy density hc/Lp^2A. Our past horizon is not at all dS. Therefore, we need the Wheeler-Feynman mechanism with our future horizon as the total final absorber for

Causality without causality.

i.e. "retarded" past to future

BJ continues:

*"The model is not the technology, any more than*

understanding the sphere equates to the existence of physical spheres. We

hypothesise however that some such technology, which in due course we may

ourselves be able to understand, was discovered at the primordial level, and

forms the basis upon which physical universes are generated. Mathematical

precision exists only in the world of discourse, and is realised to whatever

degree is possible by technology.

Symmetry and symmetry breaking may play a key role here, in view of

the fact that conceptually symmetry is defined in terms of transformations

that may have physical correlates, while at the same time symmetry is found

to play an important role in actual physics."

understanding the sphere equates to the existence of physical spheres. We

hypothesise however that some such technology, which in due course we may

ourselves be able to understand, was discovered at the primordial level, and

forms the basis upon which physical universes are generated. Mathematical

precision exists only in the world of discourse, and is realised to whatever

degree is possible by technology.

Symmetry and symmetry breaking may play a key role here, in view of

the fact that conceptually symmetry is defined in terms of transformations

that may have physical correlates, while at the same time symmetry is found

to play an important role in actual physics."

Indeed, the entire classical world consists of spontaneous broken symmetries.

Space crystals are SBS T3 ---> discrete crystal space groups with momentum UMKLAPP scattering

VIRTUAL PHONONS k =/= 0 & f = 0

k = 1/lattice vectors

Time crystals (Wilczek) are SBS T1 ---> discrete 1-dim lattice group with energy UMKLAPP scattering

VIRTUAL GOLDSTONE-HIGGS QUANTA with f =/= 0 and k = 0

f = 1/period of repeated motional pattern in ground state

All SBS condensates that form the skeletons of the classical world are made from condensates of VIRTUAL GOLDSTONE-HIGGS quanta.

BDJ:

*"In this picture locality is understood as an emergent property, analogous*

to the frequency of a physical process. Just as in some circumstances frequencies

of physical processes become well defined, with different frequencies

becoming independent of each other as far as linkages are concerned, in

this case location becomes a well defined quantity, with different locations

becoming independent of each other. Quantum entanglement and wholeness,

on the other hand, would be derivative of the units of circular theory. More

generally, the high degree of correlation associated with the packing model

can be expected to be manifested in phenomena similar to those associated

with quantum mechanics.

Discussion

We have addressed in a natural way Wheeler’s question of how observerparticipation

can lead to the emergence of specific laws of nature in

particular systems. The key point is the fact that the interpretation of

signs changes the game, facilitating the emergence of new kinds of system

and process, which are correlates of cognitive and cultural development

that, in the present context, lead to emergent laws. In this picture, the

responsible system or systems are the determiners of the observed laws,

rather than the laws concerned being presumed absolute, or derivable from

some mathematical analysis.

One can imagine a scenario whereby conventional science would be forced

similarly to renounce the idea of a Final Theory. We already have a situation

where some theory X (e.g. the Standard Model) proves inadequate and

theory Y (e.g. string theory) is proposed to take its place. Then certain

further issues lead to the idea that the real ‘fundamental theory’ is Z (e.g.

M-theory). At each stage, however, the supposed fundamental theory gets

farther from what is accessible by experiment, and its connections with

reality become more obscure.

The idea that nature at some deeper level has biological aspects is not

fundamentally absurd, and has been previously explored by authors such as

Smolin[7] and Pattee[8]. The above analysis has explored some aspects of the

‘biological logic’ applicable to such a scenario, in particular the mechanics

of development, which could lead to what might be termed ‘extended

mind’. Faculties such as mathematical intuition, difficult to account for

in conventional ways, might be manifestations of the extended mind, which

might also be related to experiences of meaning in art.

To what extent can these proposals be considered scientific in character?

While the absence of a fixed, universal mathematical law may seem at first

sight to be a radical departure from scientific tradition, the idea that the

laws manifested in the laboratory are emergent rather than fundamental is

already a feature of string theory. And, as practiced, biology is a science

that makes extensive use of phenomenology (e.g. that of chemical reactions),

and concepts specific to biology, and typically makes less use of the methods

of theoretical physics (i.e. mathematical models).

A typical biological concept is the idea that particular systems (e.g.

the immune system) have particular functions. Such concepts have value

in interpreting what one finds and in guiding investigations. The ideas

expounded here can be expected to be of similar value in constructing models

where conventional methods prove inadequate.

Some scientists have accepted the idea that not everything can be

characterised in quantitative terms, asserting however that the only real

knowledge is that based on scientific measurement; but alternatives [1, 9],

offering a broader understanding of what constitutes knowledge, are possible.

The present discussion offers some insight into what is involved in that latter

position. Nature is pervaded by patterns (signs) which through practice we

have become expert in interpreting, a process that has pragmatic value even

if it is not amenable to the traditional quantitative methodology. If the

picture developed here is correct, there is much more in the way of meaning

to be found in the natural world by such means than can be found through

the traditional methodology of science."

to the frequency of a physical process. Just as in some circumstances frequencies

of physical processes become well defined, with different frequencies

becoming independent of each other as far as linkages are concerned, in

this case location becomes a well defined quantity, with different locations

becoming independent of each other. Quantum entanglement and wholeness,

on the other hand, would be derivative of the units of circular theory. More

generally, the high degree of correlation associated with the packing model

can be expected to be manifested in phenomena similar to those associated

with quantum mechanics.

Discussion

We have addressed in a natural way Wheeler’s question of how observerparticipation

can lead to the emergence of specific laws of nature in

particular systems. The key point is the fact that the interpretation of

signs changes the game, facilitating the emergence of new kinds of system

and process, which are correlates of cognitive and cultural development

that, in the present context, lead to emergent laws. In this picture, the

responsible system or systems are the determiners of the observed laws,

rather than the laws concerned being presumed absolute, or derivable from

some mathematical analysis.

One can imagine a scenario whereby conventional science would be forced

similarly to renounce the idea of a Final Theory. We already have a situation

where some theory X (e.g. the Standard Model) proves inadequate and

theory Y (e.g. string theory) is proposed to take its place. Then certain

further issues lead to the idea that the real ‘fundamental theory’ is Z (e.g.

M-theory). At each stage, however, the supposed fundamental theory gets

farther from what is accessible by experiment, and its connections with

reality become more obscure.

The idea that nature at some deeper level has biological aspects is not

fundamentally absurd, and has been previously explored by authors such as

Smolin[7] and Pattee[8]. The above analysis has explored some aspects of the

‘biological logic’ applicable to such a scenario, in particular the mechanics

of development, which could lead to what might be termed ‘extended

mind’. Faculties such as mathematical intuition, difficult to account for

in conventional ways, might be manifestations of the extended mind, which

might also be related to experiences of meaning in art.

To what extent can these proposals be considered scientific in character?

While the absence of a fixed, universal mathematical law may seem at first

sight to be a radical departure from scientific tradition, the idea that the

laws manifested in the laboratory are emergent rather than fundamental is

already a feature of string theory. And, as practiced, biology is a science

that makes extensive use of phenomenology (e.g. that of chemical reactions),

and concepts specific to biology, and typically makes less use of the methods

of theoretical physics (i.e. mathematical models).

A typical biological concept is the idea that particular systems (e.g.

the immune system) have particular functions. Such concepts have value

in interpreting what one finds and in guiding investigations. The ideas

expounded here can be expected to be of similar value in constructing models

where conventional methods prove inadequate.

Some scientists have accepted the idea that not everything can be

characterised in quantitative terms, asserting however that the only real

knowledge is that based on scientific measurement; but alternatives [1, 9],

offering a broader understanding of what constitutes knowledge, are possible.

The present discussion offers some insight into what is involved in that latter

position. Nature is pervaded by patterns (signs) which through practice we

have become expert in interpreting, a process that has pragmatic value even

if it is not amenable to the traditional quantitative methodology. If the

picture developed here is correct, there is much more in the way of meaning

to be found in the natural world by such means than can be found through

the traditional methodology of science.

On Mar 1, 2012, at 1:22 AM, Brian Josephson wrote:

*Pure physicists have limited insight into these issues. It is via semiosis, the science of signs, that the influence of the future enters, but it is only a virtual future pointed to by these signs*. See http://arxiv.org/abs/1108.4860 (work in progress).

Brian

--On 29 February 2012 18:58:05 -0800 JACK SARFATTI <

Art please understand I have the only viable solution of this problem.

It needs retrocausality.

Seth Lloyd said on 2-27-12 he knew my result was mathematically

sound. I mean the de Sitter redshift of hc/Lp^4 ---> hc/Lp^2A

however Seth could not believe it was the future horizon, he thinks,

like they all do that it's the past particle horizon. That won't

work. Our past horizon is not de Sitter.

One must stitch the past and future solutions together.

This is discussed in Tamara Davis's thesis.

-----

2012 -- the Year of Cold Fusion!

* * * * * * * Prof. Brian D. Josephson ::::::::

* Mind-Matter * Cavendish Lab., JJ Thomson Ave, Cambridge CB3 0HE, U.K.

* Unification * voice: +44(0)1223 337260 fax: +44(0)1223 337356

* Project * WWW: http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10

* * * * * * *

On Mar 3, 2012, at 3:22 PM, JACK SARFATTI wrote:

On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Brian Josephson wrote:

--On 3 March 2012 12:48:41 -0800 JACK SARFATTI <

JS:What is the "primordial community" some sort of intrinsic mental

field, like a cosmic scale Bohm quantum potential perhaps?

BDJ:

*Bohm and Hiley rather gave up on quantum potential, but you could consider it as the basis of implicate order, or maybe the cells of some superorganism.*

JS: I conceive of the implicate order as the Seth Lloyd computer from the 10^123 Planck area pixels on the asymptote of the de Sitter future horizon. The explicate interior bulk is essentially some kind of Fourier transform of the processing on the horizon.

BDJ:

*I'm trying to take these ideas further at this time. The point about a community is that it can have a more global effect than an individual, which is related to dissemination of discoveries.*

Brian

-----

2012 -- the Year of Cold Fusion!

* * * * * * * Prof. Brian D. Josephson ::::::::

* Mind-Matter * Cavendish Lab., JJ Thomson Ave, Cambridge CB3 0HE, U.K.

* Unification * voice: +44(0)1223 337260 fax: +44(0)1223 337356

* Project * WWW: http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10

* * * * * * *