Author, journalist and media personality Nick Pope, the man who ran the UFO project for the Ministry of Defence in the United Kingdom from 1991 until 1994, joins Paul Kimball for a wide ranging conversation about UFOs, conspiracies, and alternate history. The episode begins with Pope’s thoughts on the recent Citizens Hearing on Disclosure, where he was a speaker, as well as the subjects of “disclosure” in general and the nature of government secrecy, including so-called UFO “whistleblowers”. From there the discussion transitions into a back and forth on modern conspiracy theories, particularly those surrounding 9 / 11. Kimball and Pope explain why people believe in conspiracies, and how they can represent a “canary in the coal mine” in terms of the rise of extremist movements. They then address the often overlooked issue of anti-Semitism in ufology and conspiracy subcultures, which both see as a serious concern. Kimball and Pope then have some fun as they delve into the subject of alternate history, and speculate what the world would have been like if Adolf Hitler had been killed during the Beer Hall Putsch in 1923. Finally, things come full circle as Pope provides an update on his forthcoming book about the 1980 Rendlesham Forest UFO incident, which he co-authored with controversial Rendlesham witnesses John Burroughs and James Penniston.

This episode was recorded on 23 July, 2013.

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