On Jul 15, 2012, at 12:46 PM,
Your "magick mushroom" download, circa 1979... (actually, quite late in the psychedelic physics thing?)... is reminiscent of Dr. John Lilly's recounting of his earliest "visits" with Higher Beings in upper satori states as he did his own "traveling" in such realms, first with LSD propelling him from his isolation-flotation tanks. He recounted in his "Center of the Cyclone" how he made seeming "contact" with these "beings," but they so much as told him he was too stoned to interact meaningfully... and suggested he come back "straight.”
JS: That’s right. Remember Lilly had Feynman come to Esalen and Feynman did experiment with psychedlics in Big Sur when he knew he was dying of what I think was radiation exposure from the Manhattan Project. Lilly and Feynman were old friends from Cal Tech.
DF: Lilly said he then went to Chile and did the meditation thing with Oscar Ichazo, eventually meeting up again with what seemed (to Lilly) to be the same "beings," and having a more memorable interaction with them.
Wonder whether you've written and/or published whether you perceive that your 1953 "phone call" from the beings you recall communicating with you are/were involved in any of your subsequent "travels" into such realms?
JS: Remember my 1953 contact was very UN-PSYCHEDELIC. I was only about 13 years old in a blue-collar Irish-German-Italian-Jewish/Catholic neighborhood in Flatbush. The phone call(s) were very material mechanical and my mother witnessed at least one of them. This was a real incident not the imaginings of a child.
DF: Also, an associate of Dr. Ray Moody, one Robin Andrews Quayle, back in the late 1980s, early '90s, did some work with "mass UFO experiencers," then later with what are termed "ETI Prodigies," i.e., people who had a perceived interaction and/or "information download" with and from "ETs," relaying or bestowing knowledge of "innovative technologies," etc., and who frequently were unable to make real sense of same because they lacked formal education and thus, "vocabulary" and ability to "do the math," to manifest any productivity or progress as a result of the "data dump.”
JS: Exactly my point. BTW Hal Puthoff needs to clarify if he also had a similar contact about the same time - we are close in age. I had a private dinner with Hal about 1999 when Joe Firmage invited him out to ISSO and something Hal said to me indicated that he had - but perhaps I misunderstood him? Joe Firmage’s contact like Dan Throop Smith’s was more subjective and could be explained as a brain malfunction - a delusion unlike mine. Uri Geller also had a more mechanical contact like mind about the same time (early 1950’s) witnessed by a then young Israeli army recruit who later rose high in the ranks and outed himself on Israeli TV a few years ago. Check with Uri for details.
DF: There’s considerable Internet "conversation" about said "extraterrestrial prodigies," as a quick search shows, and most provocative (and perhaps relevant here) are accounts of "child prodigies" with decidedly "ET alien" coloration. Some of these (ETI prodigy) folks also became rather "paranoid," Robin reported, because they feared that "powers that be" would be "after them" to steal or more likely to "prevent" what they had been "given" from contributing to human progress at the expense of "status quo" dominant tech.
JS: Sure, lots of crazies are attracted to UFOs as well as to the Tea Party and to Occupy. ;-)
DF: There actually was a 1993 conference of these folks, held in the mountains of north Georgia (in the US, not the Near East ;-) to which I was invited and which I attended, while still working as Director of Project Development for the Human Potential Foundation, the nonprofit founded by Senator Pell, funded by Hans Adam II of Liechtenstein and the late Laurance S. Rockefeller, et al. We have the monograph by Ms. Quayle on the "ETI Prodigies" findings, and are continuing to "work it." So your experiences, which you've so candidly been discussing for 'lo these many years, are helpful to what is a fascinating, if not much publicly discussed, facet of the broader "exceptional information" source study. ;-)
JS: I tell it like it really happened. Obviously I would not lie about it since it gives people like Lubos Motl ammunition to attack my physics ideas as a delusional UFO nut and it also led Antony Valentini being pressured to disinvite me to the Bohm Conference I had conceived of with Michael Towler at Cambridge in the first place. See the Wikipedia page on me for details and references.
Washington, DC USA
PS -- These are, at least to my colleagues and I, much more interesting questions about the "UFO/ET" and claimed-perceived "contacts," particularly when people who've gone on to accomplish demonstrable stuff are involved. And of course it underpinned my previous query in this thread which also criticized "UFO chaff" as being a distraction from what is potentially more relevant to our understanding of what may be going on. ;-)
In a message dated 7/13/2012 1:45:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Did u download the whole 50 pages?
There is more when I have a chance to scan it. Einhorn’s influence is seen in my discussion of Arthur Koestler’s holons. Of course I knew Koestler from the Uri Geller tests and was at his home on Montpellier Square in London and knew his wife as well - not well of course.
Remember it was written under the influence of magick mushrooms in 1979 from some woman I think she was a friend of Randy T?
On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:34 AM,
This is VERY interesting and, as Spock might say, "Fascinating!"
Recently was reviewing work of Stewart Edward White... author of "The Betty Book," trance channeled by his wife, Elizabeth Grant White ("Betty) and published in the late 1930s, after nearly twenty years of work by "Betty," transcribed by her husband, Stewart.
He also published (after Betty's "death," although she continued "contact" and contributions to their effort, or so Stewart believed and wrote) at least two more in the most relevant sequence, "Across the Universe" and "The Unobstructed Universe."
Similar to "The Seth Material" as channeled by Jane Roberts (and transcribed by her husband), a generation later, the Whites' material has many references to (non-physicists) attempting to convey "literarily" what she was "seeing" and what the entities they called the "Invisibles" were supposedly showing and teaching them.
If we consider that the "signal" is coming through, and the sensitivities to RECEIVING same (as opposed to being able to understand and even articulate "in the language of physics" such insights and revelations), it is akin to what has often been described by "UFO experiencers," who receive "data" and who "see things" but are unable, because of their lack of training and vocabulary, or because what they "see" is so at variance with human technology and vernacular as to be "indescribable," making the occasional "download" to the wandering physicist that much more interesting, even allowing for a translatable "breakthrough."
That's what Hynek hoped might happen, as I understood what he was saying and trying to do when he was so sadly taken "off planet."
Just saying... your stuff remains among the most interesting "Out There," and your efforts to explain the Higgs thingy have been both helpful and entertaining.
Keep it up, Jack!